1.70G • 5 agencies
DOW-UAP-PR102, Unresolved UAP Report, East China Sea, 2024
A Department of War release logging a 2024 unidentified anomalous phenomenon report that U.S. Indo-Pacific Command submitted to AARO: 36 seconds of infrared video of an object over the East China Sea.
DOW-UAP-PR109, Unresolved UAP Report, Eastern United States, 2015
A U.S. Department of War (AARO) release of 21 seconds of infrared footage from a 2015 UAP event over the eastern United States, digitally altered before it ever reached the Navy's UAP Task Force.
NASA-UAP-D026, Apollo 14 Debriefing, 1971
Segment 1 of 2 of the Apollo 14 post-mission crew debriefing at the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston, transcribing crew and debriefer discussion of in-flight food, biomedical sensor failures, sleep, and (per the release framing) the cosmic-ray 'light flash phenomena.'
[00:00:00,000] >> You're coming through loud and clear. [00:00:05,080] >> Okay, I guess we can. [00:00:06,520] >> 20 mics. [00:00:07,880] >> One for you. [00:00:11,480] >> What mics do we need? [00:00:14,320] >> Good morning, Charles. [00:00:15,860] >> Hello. [00:00:16,860] >> How are you? [00:00:17,860] >> Fine. [00:00:18,860] >> How are you? [00:00:19,860] >> Fine. [00:00:20,860] >> Good. [00:00:21,860] >> Terrify. [00:00:22,860] >> Good. [00:00:23,860] >> Yeah, we tried to go through this, you know, your debrief last night, the printed one, [00:00:43,300] you know, this all the stuff that you guys did on tape, your tech debrief, to get those [00:00:48,460] so that we try and not repeat, you know, only amplified stuff, and so we try to come [00:00:56,020] up in much time to do that, but I hope we've got most of that stuff. [00:01:01,180] >> Okay. [00:01:02,180] >> And if you think we're hitting some area that you think, you know, as a conflict with [00:01:07,940] that, we'll yell, tell us, and we'll change it around. [00:01:14,300] And some of the things, now there were some things that you guys said yesterday, you know, [00:01:18,020] when I was in the project, you briefly, that probably bear on some of these, too. [00:01:27,460] >> Good morning. [00:01:30,620] >> Good morning, man. [00:01:50,700] >> Good morning. [00:02:04,220] >> Good morning. [00:02:27,180] >> Good morning. [00:02:47,540] >> Good morning. [00:03:03,460] >> Good morning. [00:03:23,380] >> Good morning. [00:03:39,300] >> Good morning. [00:03:55,220] >> Good morning. [00:04:11,140] >> Good morning. [00:04:27,060] >> Good morning. [00:04:42,980] >> Good morning. [00:04:58,900] Good morning. [00:05:14,820] Good morning. [00:05:30,740] >> Good morning. [00:05:46,660] >> Good morning. [00:06:08,020] >> Good morning. [00:06:18,540] >> Good morning. [00:06:38,500] Good morning. [00:06:54,420] >> Good morning. [00:07:10,340] >> Good morning. [00:07:26,260] Good morning. [00:07:42,180] Good morning. [00:08:05,540] >> Good morning. [00:08:21,460] Good morning. [00:08:37,380] >> Good morning. [00:08:53,300] >> Good morning. [00:09:09,220] >> Good morning. [00:09:22,180] >> Good morning. [00:09:40,100] >> Good morning. [00:10:07,460] >> Good morning. [00:10:23,380] Good morning. [00:10:43,300] Good morning. [00:11:06,660] >> Good morning. [00:11:34,020] Good morning. [00:11:43,060] >> Good morning. [00:12:04,980] Good morning. [00:12:26,900] >> Good morning. [00:12:48,820] >> Good morning. [00:13:10,740] Good morning. [00:13:19,780] Good morning. [00:13:41,700] >> Good morning. [00:14:03,620] >> Good morning. [00:14:25,540] >> Good morning. [00:14:47,460] >> Good morning. [00:15:09,380] >> Good morning. [00:15:18,420] >> Good morning. [00:15:40,340] >> Good morning. [00:15:49,380] Good morning. [00:16:10,340] Good morning. [00:16:32,260] Good morning. [00:16:54,180] >> Good morning. [00:17:16,100] >> Good morning. [00:17:38,020] >> Good morning. [00:17:47,060] Good morning. [00:18:08,980] >> Good morning. [00:18:30,900] Good morning. [00:18:52,820] >> Good morning. [00:19:14,740] Good morning. [00:19:36,660] Good morning. [00:19:51,140] >> Good morning. [00:20:13,060] >> Good morning. [00:20:34,980] Good morning. [00:20:56,900] >> Good morning. [00:21:18,820] >> Good morning. [00:21:40,740] Good morning. [00:22:02,660] Good morning. [00:22:24,580] Good morning. [00:22:46,500] Good morning. [00:23:08,420] Good morning. [00:23:30,340] Good morning. [00:23:52,260] >> Good morning. [00:24:01,300] >> Good morning. [00:24:23,220] Good morning. [00:24:45,140] Good morning. [00:25:07,060] Good morning. [00:25:28,020] Good morning. [00:25:49,940] I would say the answer to your question would be yes that I ate more when they were in there, but the idea of people being together is nothing [00:26:04,960] in that. [00:26:05,960] It's a time factor. [00:26:08,960] During the coast phase you have more time to worry about eating. [00:26:15,700] During the urban phase I didn't have any time at all and any extra time and particularly with the troubleshooting the icon and so forth. [00:26:27,720] So I didn't have the inclination or want to go to the trouble of trying to mix up a meal as such. [00:26:35,700] And I didn't much like that going to all that trouble anyway so I opened up the chicken salad I think it was and I had that for breakfast and then a wet pack and that's the type of food you can really get to in a hurry and eat. [00:26:53,700] So I wouldn't say overall that probably ended up eating too much less but it was a little different rather than sitting down and mixing up a rehydratable pack and so forth. [00:27:04,700] So the total amount you don't think was any different because you're there but it was just different kinds of food. [00:27:09,700] It may have been a little less and better. [00:27:12,700] Do you personally feel that you know the weight loss is involved here? [00:27:17,700] You know that you've got one pound each year and you've got a ten pound one and I heard your comment about the scale yesterday too. [00:27:27,700] But do you have any personal reason why you think there's that much different weight loss? [00:27:34,700] I mean as you know that you personally try to account for it other than food intake, water intake or anything of that sort of. [00:27:45,700] No, I'm not sure that there's anything magic about zero G or the fly. I would suspect I'd probably lost several pounds if I had eaten that same menu and sat right here. [00:28:07,700] I probably think that I was certain pounds overweight when I went into the flight as a matter of fact. [00:28:15,700] You know I'm not a big eater and during most of the time you come up on training I drink a can of sago and a can of eggs for breakfast. [00:28:26,700] And then I eat a sandwich for lunch and maybe drink two or three cans of beer and eat a sandwich and eat them. [00:28:40,700] You know I can go four days on a menu like that and I don't know how many calories all that adds up to but you know it's not really a high calorie diet. [00:28:52,700] And I would say that that pretty much was my diet for three months prior to going into quarantine was just about what I what I stated there. [00:29:01,700] And then when we got into quarantine or then I started eating more for breakfast and eating a bigger meal in the evening. [00:29:08,700] And so I think I probably was three or four pounds heavy going in going into the flight. And so I I think the weight loss may be overplayed a little bit because I think I had a few extra pounds and then plus I don't think that maybe we picked the right [00:29:31,700] the right weight up on the on the rolling scales. But that's neither here nor there you know what. [00:29:39,700] Well we can probably show you something about that from when we get your lab mature pull together I think we'd be able to give you a better handle on that as to whether you know it really was something that had to do with the zero G state or not. [00:29:52,700] We hope we'll be able to do that. [00:29:54,700] I'd like to just add a general comment which I think reflects the consensus of the three of us that with respect to the food in general the type of food, the method by which it was packaged and so on. [00:30:07,700] And the degree to which we like it just like it was primarily a function of the level of activity in the flight plan. [00:30:15,700] But the business of going into the pantry and taking time to select foods and drinks and so on. It's fine during the quiet periods of course that things like. [00:30:25,700] Like spoon spoon packages are good level of activities not too high but certainly the level of activity is high. [00:30:32,700] The web packs and the cans and that's about all you want to take time for with. [00:30:37,700] I think this is a general comment that really reflects our consensus. It was a time consuming part of the day to prepare meals, get them out of the food box, get them all laid out, cut all the tops off and get all the water into them, get them the size. [00:30:55,700] Get the pill back in there with you through. It's an effort and it's a lot easier to open up a can and a wet pack and then you think it's a lot of trouble to mix up the juice. [00:31:09,700] But in that way you got your meal and you're through and you're on your way. [00:31:13,700] The cooking problem quotes is still a problem which has been fairly common I guess. [00:31:27,700] But I would say in my case that watching these guys eat they went right down the menu and so I thought I really should do that but I just didn't have inflammation to eat that much. [00:31:47,700] Even though you're knowing your own mind how you got to do this you got to keep yourself just as much as you possibly can. [00:31:55,700] I just couldn't get around to doing it. In fact several times I'd mix the food up and then by the time I'd eat a couple packages I just couldn't get to the third package so I'd put it back in the pantry. [00:32:05,700] Well Stu one of the things that's going to come out of that is somebody you know reading the the the breathing itself. The obvious question comes up okay was your lack of appetite itself was it just plain lack of appetite or did you really have any any discomfort as far as a goat was concerned at all. [00:32:26,700] Anything that you felt was pathological in your loss of appetite due to the environment or anything. No no I don't think there's anything in that. [00:32:36,700] I could say I think it boils down to a lot of just too much food you know you bundle up one of those meals and there's just too much there to eat. [00:32:47,700] Were any of you ever thirsty in flight. You were dry. You were dry quite a bit you know you'd have a sensation of dryness and you'd want in water you know juice would make you want some wine. [00:33:03,700] Did you while we're at it we might just wipe out the water. Did you guys drink the water in your suits. [00:33:10,700] Did you drink all it is I just drank a lot of food. [00:33:15,700] On the first one I don't know how much of mine I drank I thought I ate the bag but apparently the walls of the bag got around the drink tube and I didn't get it all out because it drained down around my neck during the sleep period. [00:33:33,700] I had a leaky one also when I took out two EBA's. Okay did you fill them up again then when you went out second you know and you drank about you think you drank about a 30 years both times. [00:33:44,700] I'd say yeah I didn't really stop and drink too much. Yeah and I drank all mine in the second EVA and I can't remember whether I drank it all or not if I didn't there may be some still in it. [00:33:56,700] Okay all right and one other comment on what we're on there eating far forget it. [00:34:03,700] We ran completely out of these bite sized packages you know and to me that was the best the best thing we had. [00:34:12,700] These little you know turkey sandwiches, cheese sandwiches and that sort of thing. [00:34:17,700] Because that was a no sweat operation you just clip that off in a can of juice and you could go at it so I really like those and I ate all those generally that I could get my hands on and we ran out of dough. [00:34:30,700] Well we ran out of books everything else too just about it. [00:34:34,700] No not really I had all kinds of food. [00:34:39,700] If I may make a comment to the mind about what he said eating and ringing happens. [00:34:47,700] This flight plan is really something that he worked on to develop before the flight. [00:34:52,700] It's a busy flight plan. It's a full one and it was my impression that he was more interested in being sure that the flight plan was done properly than the needy. [00:35:01,700] Oh yeah. [00:35:02,700] I think that affected it to a great degree which again gets back to the level of activity versus the. [00:35:08,700] You guys can get a little, for example those drink bags, get a little diaphragm on the end. [00:35:13,700] Just stick over a needle and pump the water in that way and shake it up, pull the plug out and break it out of the same deal. [00:35:20,700] That would be a lot easier for those drinks. [00:35:23,700] For the juices and things you mean. [00:35:25,700] Oh cutting. [00:35:26,700] Yeah so that you don't end up having to sort of feel you gotta drink the whole damn thing once you get it done. [00:35:31,700] You see you got a drink bag and you got a little gnarled thing it's all sucked into plastic and it's all pulled down. [00:35:38,700] Right exactly right first of all you can't get out of the mouth without any of the leak. [00:35:41,700] And you get it all done and you gotta go cut the other end. [00:35:44,700] And I was just thinking maybe it might be an easier way to put a diaphragm fitting on there that you can stick over a hypodermic type thing and get the water in that way. [00:35:52,700] Might be a little bit quicker way to do it. [00:35:55,700] Okay. [00:35:56,700] I think you do to make it easier is going to help increase the consumption, particularly during busy time periods. [00:36:01,700] Okay. [00:36:02,700] Could we get you, this is going to involve just really Alan and Ed. [00:36:09,700] We'd like to have you describe as well as you can the things that you did with your, with your biostromantation harnesses when, because it's very hard for us to be sure exactly what happened. [00:36:22,700] And we don't have that stuff back yet we're going to set it, we've got to cut it off a plan of troubleshoot it. [00:36:27,700] And as I entered the thing that happened with yourself just from our point. [00:36:32,700] Not the actions, not the words. [00:36:34,700] You want the actions, not the words. [00:36:35,700] The actions, not the words, yeah. [00:36:37,700] Okay. [00:36:38,700] Well you said in some of the words too. [00:36:42,700] But what, from our point of view what happened with your particular harnesses, everything was fine when everybody left the MSOB, okay. [00:36:53,700] We got, when you got into the spacecraft, right after you got, apparently when you were getting cinched down somehow, because we had about three minutes or so after you were in the, in the couch of good data. [00:37:06,700] And then we began to get erratic, they began to want, the baseline began to want all over the place. [00:37:13,700] That continued to get worse and worse and pretty soon it was going just full scale, which was totally unreadable. [00:37:21,700] So the question was okay, it was a question about hatch closure at that point in time. [00:37:27,700] We decided right then, I said well hell we're going to go, we're going to go without that because I'm sure it's a sensor, and the only way to get at it anyway, if you, we asked you then to try and press on those things. [00:37:40,700] If that wouldn't do it, if that wouldn't recede it, then the first opportunity would be when we got you actually in flight. [00:37:48,700] Now we don't know why, but it came back, it was gone still, when you went over Australia as you came back up on the states magically. [00:37:56,700] There we had data, and we went back to the MSOB from the firing room to catch that pass, and there you were, it was beautiful, just as if nothing had ever happened. [00:38:07,700] And you hadn't done a damn thing, because then we asked them, you know, now, as we understand when you looked at that sensor then, that you did have some material that had leaked out from underneath it. [00:38:19,700] And you, and we understand that you replaced that, so you cleaned up and replaced that sensor, is that right? [00:38:26,700] We didn't replace the sensor, no. [00:38:28,700] Okay, just to clean it off, refill it, put a new sticky back on it and put it back on. [00:38:34,700] Yeah, okay. [00:38:35,700] That was the second day in the flight. [00:38:37,700] Yeah, right, yeah. [00:38:39,700] That was the first time that we really, and that we asked you to do that then because we thought we'd get it out of the way before you got into the, okay. [00:38:46,700] And then you had another... [00:38:48,700] It also changed the adapter, the CWG adapter, because then one time on the flight they said my column wasn't very good. [00:38:55,700] Yeah, your column was terrible, right? [00:38:57,700] Yeah, a spare adapter, and so it changed that. [00:38:59,700] Exactly, and that was, I don't know. [00:39:01,700] But that was pretty early, too. [00:39:02,700] I think it was the first day, right? [00:39:04,700] Yeah, I think it was the first day. [00:39:06,700] The student, well, that was the Lord. [00:39:08,700] That was everything to do with the launch problem, because the question was... [00:39:11,700] No. [00:39:12,700] No. [00:39:13,700] And we had a respiration. [00:39:15,700] You can see respiration, but we didn't have the... [00:39:17,700] That's good. [00:39:18,700] Yeah, yeah. [00:39:19,700] But we didn't have the ECG. [00:39:21,700] Yeah, very, very sure you can make it. [00:39:23,700] Yeah, all right, good. [00:39:24,700] Yeah, can you correlate the appearance of your EKG signal with any flight activity that you might have been doing it? [00:39:30,700] I sure can't. [00:39:31,700] I'm just as simplified about that as you were. [00:39:33,700] I tried to press it through the suit or anything. [00:39:35,700] It happened. [00:39:36,700] I can't feel anything through the suit. [00:39:37,700] Well, you were free then, though. [00:39:38,700] You had your helmet gloves off. [00:39:40,700] It was one hour and every minute's GTO. [00:39:42,700] I don't know if that brings any bells to you. [00:39:44,700] How was it bus arrived at that time when we were moving around with the bus sensation checklist and this movement of the couch, like... [00:39:52,700] I imagine getting some things that pulled out and still had some stuff. [00:39:55,700] It's probably... [00:39:56,700] It just got to be that you were probably just... [00:39:58,700] It was in the cinching down in the couch that it probably loosened that edge of that sensor somehow a little bit. [00:40:05,700] And I don't know why. [00:40:07,700] Or put a cramp in a lead or brought it to contact with something else. [00:40:12,700] Yeah. [00:40:13,700] Because it sure came back fine after that. [00:40:15,700] Okay. [00:40:16,700] In the second time, what else did you have with yours out from your point? [00:40:20,700] What else did you do to the thing? [00:40:22,700] The only other thing I noticed was about the next of the last day that the thread coupling between the sensor line, the sensor harness, and the belt. [00:40:34,700] The little characteristics are in the belt. [00:40:37,700] On top of the signal conditioner. [00:40:39,700] It had to strip the threads. I could get it to hold a little bit. [00:40:43,700] And apparently the signal was fine, then it would slip off. [00:40:46,700] It came back beautifully, didn't you tell you? [00:40:48,700] But then, when I unsuited at the end, I noticed that was loose. [00:40:52,700] So, if it was a friendly strip, it would probably get cranked down too hard. [00:40:57,700] Did you routinely disconnect that connector at the signal conditioner for sleep or for bowel movement? [00:41:08,700] It would not be slight for bowel movements and for swabbing down and cleaning out process. [00:41:13,700] Anytime you pulled your clothes off, either change clothes, or put on the LCG or use the blue bags, whatever, we all have to do. [00:41:27,700] Okay. [00:41:28,700] And then, you didn't replace anything. [00:41:31,700] You didn't have to reseed any sensor after that. [00:41:35,700] That was the only other thing you had was the second one. [00:41:37,700] It was the only time I took a sensor off. [00:41:39,700] Was that first? [00:41:40,700] That call was correct because we took it off and we didn't see the secret to the electric light. [00:41:45,700] Right. [00:41:46,700] Same with that. [00:41:48,700] Okay. [00:41:49,700] How about yours then, Ed? [00:41:50,700] The only thing that I replaced was that one sensor. [00:41:53,700] Which one? [00:41:54,700] And it was... [00:41:55,700] Do you was saying the whole sensor? [00:41:56,700] I don't mean replacing the sensor. [00:41:58,700] We pulled it off, cleaned it out, refilled it with the electric light, put it back on. [00:42:02,700] It was the same? [00:42:03,700] Just the same out. [00:42:04,700] No, no, no, no, no. [00:42:05,700] Okay. [00:42:06,700] You did not take the harness out of the kit and replaced the whole thing. [00:42:09,700] Okay. [00:42:10,700] Because we thought you had done that. [00:42:12,700] Well, you called and asked for that, but there wasn't time to do it. [00:42:15,700] So we took... [00:42:16,700] Glad you could hear what we said to me when you guys said that. [00:42:18,700] We took the chance that the real problem was simply the sensor and the electric light, [00:42:23,700] and that's what it was. [00:42:24,700] That's exactly what it was. [00:42:25,700] We couldn't affect the worst time in the standpoint of timeline. [00:42:28,700] Is that right? [00:42:29,700] We're just getting ready to go into the lab, you know. [00:42:31,700] Everybody's all asking elbows and suits and underwear and gear and books, everything, [00:42:37,700] all over the place. [00:42:38,700] I was sitting here hand-dressed. [00:42:40,700] I didn't want to go any further until we got a go on it. [00:42:42,700] We couldn't get the high bit right up for you guys to look at it. [00:42:45,700] Right. [00:42:46,700] And so... [00:42:47,700] I remember the most wasn't any time left, so we changed that when I went hand-dressed. [00:42:50,700] Yeah. [00:42:51,700] Do you know when you came up there, though, that the data, you gave us about two minutes [00:42:55,700] when the high gain did lock on, and we got two minutes of data, and it still showed [00:43:00,700] that the loose sensor. [00:43:01,700] Now, what did you do the second time? [00:43:06,700] You came up and asked us how the data looked, and we said it looked poor yet, and we gave [00:43:10,700] you no longer the suiting to change out behind us. [00:43:14,700] I don't recall exactly the sequence of events. [00:43:21,700] When I called and asked for you to check it, as far as I know, we did nothing after that, [00:43:27,700] to make sure everything was cinched down and went ahead and dressed. [00:43:31,700] Didn't you do something with the fluid in there? [00:43:34,700] Yeah, but I had already done it at that point. [00:43:38,700] I changed the electrolyte when I called and asked you guys to check it. [00:43:44,700] I did nothing after that, except just to make sure everything was secure. [00:43:48,700] Yeah, because you see, the first time you called the data was poor, and that was the basis [00:43:52,700] for the call to change out the whole highness, because we said, well, it wasn't that sensor, [00:43:55,700] and we didn't have time to talk to you, because LOS was coming up, so we said, go ahead and [00:43:59,700] change out the whole thing. [00:44:00,700] But whatever you did subsequently corrected it, because it came back beautifully. [00:44:04,700] So we assumed you had just changed out the whole highness. [00:44:06,700] Let's bring a little hole in the water. [00:44:08,700] Yeah. [00:44:09,700] [LAUGHTER] [00:44:11,700] Ziggy, now that you mentioned it, you know, I just can't remember precisely when we changed [00:44:17,700] it, but I'm thinking that it was already changed at that point. [00:44:21,700] Oh. [00:44:22,700] Okay. [00:44:23,700] It was just the lower strum. [00:44:26,700] It was the lower strum. [00:44:27,700] Same as the same as L. [00:44:28,700] I remember they changed. [00:44:29,700] It was electrolyte that was revealed. [00:44:31,700] Yeah. [00:44:32,700] Yeah. [00:44:33,700] Taking it off and putting it back. [00:44:35,700] Putting it back. [00:44:36,700] Just sticking it back. [00:44:37,700] Okay. [00:44:38,700] And you think you did that before LOS? [00:44:41,700] Yeah. [00:44:42,700] He probably did what we're thinking now. [00:44:44,700] He happened probably took a while before to see properly, and then when he came around, it [00:44:49,700] was good. [00:44:50,700] Good. [00:44:51,700] Well, his state, state good then, and we were having trouble with yours going in, you begin [00:44:56,700] to get this laundry baseline on yours again before the, you know, after we got into the [00:45:01,700] limit. [00:45:02,700] So there was a question in our minds about it. [00:45:04,700] Is there any way we could do it to get that better, you know, to make that better. [00:45:08,700] We were trying to find, trying to figure some way. [00:45:11,700] Could you reach around when you were in the suit? [00:45:14,700] Is there any way you could get at that thing if you took like after the EVA, you ended up [00:45:18,700] picking the helmet off. [00:45:21,700] Could you get down into the, into the suit here? [00:45:23,700] You really have to have the upper torso garment, the upper part of the torso garment clear [00:45:28,700] of the body in order to be able to feel that. [00:45:30,700] In order to feel that way, you can definitely tell, you know, the other guy goes through [00:45:33,700] the backs if we're around in front. [00:45:35,700] Then we tried that on the ground to see if you could do that. [00:45:38,700] That's pretty hard to do. [00:45:39,700] The most you can do is press on it. [00:45:41,700] After all that time of quarantine, that's pretty dangerous too. [00:45:44,700] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:45:48,700] You can still wear your hands, is that okay? [00:45:51,700] Alright. [00:45:53,700] Forget the EVA, just keep pulling in my sensory. [00:45:56,700] Yeah. [00:45:58,700] You've got two hours to stop that. [00:46:04,700] Oh, okay. [00:46:09,700] The thing we got from the sleep, which I think is fairly well carded, if you have any day [00:46:16,700] on to that, we'd like you to. [00:46:19,700] But what we got out of it is that all of you pretty well never really had a solid, long [00:46:25,700] sleep period that it was broken and it was things like a couple of hours at a time or something. [00:46:30,700] And I gather that the reasons for that vary, you had some difficulty with wanting to feel [00:46:39,700] some pressure in the end's case. [00:46:41,700] I know, and now I mentioned this too, and Stu didn't like the couch. [00:46:46,700] And then you ended up in the limb. [00:46:49,700] The thing was being the suits all the time and then the tilt of the limb too. [00:46:53,700] Both of those things probably had a lot to do with sleep activity. [00:46:56,700] Is there anything else that you think you can add? [00:47:00,700] Did you feel that you were arrested enough to do the task even with the sleep that you had? [00:47:04,700] Yeah, but I think we're working on reserves. [00:47:07,700] Yeah, I did too. [00:47:08,700] Well, there were two days that we felt sloppy. [00:47:12,700] One was the second day out after the excitement of the launch and all that activity. [00:47:19,700] Being, coming and becoming acclimated to the new environment. [00:47:23,700] So we felt like we weren't really clinging along too well on the second day out. [00:47:28,700] The day after DEI, although we all apparently slept better after DEI that night, I guess [00:47:34,700] was probably the terms of continuously before the best night of the launch. [00:47:38,700] Still, the next day we felt like we were not really organized. [00:47:42,700] We got things done, but the little things were not being handled as neatly as we would like to receive. [00:47:47,700] So these are the only two days we felt we were going to work on top of them. [00:47:53,700] I think, Chuck, I feel that for no longer than we work for nine days, [00:47:59,700] that you can get along on a fairly small amount of sleep in just your reserves and your discipline [00:48:05,700] and everything else makes you do the job properly. [00:48:08,700] But in my case, I felt very strongly that I was on reserves, that physically I was going downhill. [00:48:16,700] And it was of some concern to me that I wasn't getting enough sleep. [00:48:21,700] I knew I wasn't getting enough sleep. [00:48:23,700] And yet, I felt fairly wide awake and alert on most of the days, except the two days I was talking about. [00:48:30,700] But sleeping to me was a very insecure experience. [00:48:34,700] And how do you mean insecure? [00:48:36,700] Because of this wanting something to bring? [00:48:38,700] I don't want to feel like you, the best I can say, feel like you were in a bed. [00:48:43,700] And wanting to feel some pressure or to be lying on something. [00:48:47,700] It was a pleasant day to go down. [00:48:52,700] I knew we'd get back to that. [00:48:56,700] It was really a pleasant experience to be in zero-g during the daytime, I thought. [00:49:01,700] It wasn't quite so pleasant an experience at night. [00:49:04,700] Well, did you feel, that brings up the scene. [00:49:07,700] Did you feel, I get it from Al's comments in particular, this business of using your legs [00:49:12,700] and your feet to try and hang on to something, which has been described by other guys, too, at some length? [00:49:20,700] Did you have a feeling that that was the cause of this muscle business in your back? [00:49:26,700] Because that's been described and they've never been able to really put a hand on it. [00:49:30,700] Why they felt they had that? [00:49:32,700] They've had this sort of feeling that if they could just stretch that real good. [00:49:36,700] Do you think it is due to the fact that you were trying to drop on something? [00:49:41,700] Yeah, as soon as that's what I analyzed after the first couple of days, I think we discussed it as a matter of fact. [00:49:47,700] So we started exercise and then deliberately take time to relax, not only in the sleep room, [00:49:54,700] but also try to adapt ourselves to a relaxed state during the awake periods in the seats [00:50:00,700] or on the optics or on the tunnel or something. [00:50:03,700] And after the second day, it kind of went away. [00:50:05,700] Yeah, that small of the back problem was gone after a couple of days. [00:50:09,700] And in fact, I was kind of surprised that woke up that first morning and my back had bothered me during the night. [00:50:17,700] And I didn't realize that Alan Ed's head back was bothering him at that time, too. [00:50:25,700] And I said, "You know, I really didn't get that much sleep, but this sounds crazy as all hell." [00:50:30,700] Because I can lay on that big fine king-sized bed at the house, and if I get a lot of sleep, you know, [00:50:39,700] if I lay there for, say, 10 or 11 hours, why the small of my back bothers me. [00:50:43,700] And I said to these guys, I said, "Hey, this is crazy. I didn't sleep that much last night, [00:50:48,700] but my back feels just like I've got about 11 hours sleep." [00:50:51,700] And they said, "Well, mine does, too." And then we got to talking about it. [00:50:55,700] But it was there, and it was very conscious to me that first night. [00:51:00,700] In fact, I thought probably my back kept me going to sleep as much as the new environment, [00:51:05,700] rather than the zero G, because I was always conscious of my back bothers me. [00:51:10,700] Did you ever think about taking aspirin or anything with anything with that? [00:51:13,700] Did you ever take aspirin at all? [00:51:15,700] For them? [00:51:16,700] For the eighth? [00:51:17,700] I think until the time we discussed it, I was convinced that the reason I was feeling bad, [00:51:24,700] in the back, was just not urinating for so damn long during that whole... [00:51:29,700] I wondered if you went first back. [00:51:31,700] I did think that. [00:51:32,700] And then after we started discussing it, I said, "Well, that may not be the problem, [00:51:37,700] or if so, that's just part of the problem." [00:51:38,700] Yeah, everybody's got it. [00:51:39,700] Everybody's got it. [00:51:40,700] And I agree without it. It has something to do with the way you try to use your feet to stabilize yourself. [00:51:47,700] And I found, I believe, although I couldn't see myself, [00:51:51,700] I believe that when I was relaxing in the spacecraft and G, I was in a curved position. [00:51:56,700] And it felt good to throw the shoulders back and straighten out, [00:52:00,700] or to take the X-ray gym and get some tension on those back muscles. [00:52:04,700] You tend to assume, sorry, it's sort of like a fetal position. [00:52:08,700] If you just totally relax, your legs will tend to float up and come up in a sort of a semi-c, [00:52:16,700] and your hands will tend to float out about like this, and your back hands depend on them. [00:52:20,700] So it tends to assume that kind of a decision. [00:52:22,700] If you just let all your muscles go, so you don't have any muscles to float on. [00:52:25,700] Oh, I tell you, one of the good things for that back, too, is just exactly that position. [00:52:30,700] Just get yourself up like this. [00:52:32,700] And that first night, when my back was bothering me, I tried to sleep a good bit. [00:52:37,700] I'd reach down and grab a hold of my booties. [00:52:40,700] And I would lay there like that with pulling some pressure on my legs. [00:52:45,700] And it would really help, that smaller your back. [00:52:49,700] I found both things, either straighten it out to put some tension on the back muscles, [00:52:54,700] or as Stu says, double on it, and pull the other way. [00:52:58,700] How about when you got back onto the carrier now? [00:53:01,700] And you got into a bed then for the first time back in a 1G environment. [00:53:06,700] Did you have any feeling? [00:53:07,700] Did you have the feeling that you were real heavy, that you were sinking into the bed? [00:53:12,700] Did you have that when you were on a table or anything, on the X-ray table or anything? [00:53:16,700] None of you experienced that. [00:53:20,700] How about weight of clothes? [00:53:22,700] Did you have a weight of clothes? [00:53:23,700] No. [00:53:24,700] Pants were too heavy or they were falling or anything like that when you first got back. [00:53:28,700] Only thing I can remember about laying down on the bunk was it was a good relief to be able to lay on your stomach. [00:53:36,700] You know, generally, I don't know which way I sleep most back or stomach or what, but you know, [00:53:42,700] I always had the impression no matter in what position you are in the spacecraft, you're on your back. [00:53:49,700] And so I remember thinking of that. [00:53:53,700] The first thing I laid down in the bunk was I stretched out on my back and I said, [00:53:57,700] "Gee, I've been in this way for nine days. I think I'll turn over." [00:53:59,700] So I rolled over on my stomach. It felt pretty good. [00:54:04,700] Did any of you have any dreams at all? Did you ever dream of flying at all? [00:54:08,700] I did, but I couldn't for the life of a bird call. [00:54:12,700] Well, that doesn't matter. [00:54:14,700] Yeah, I had dreams. [00:54:15,700] But you didn't have dream activity at least because of that. [00:54:18,700] Yeah. [00:54:20,700] Yeah, I think of that heavy feeling, Chuck. [00:54:23,700] The only time I noticed it was after we had landed, we were still in the spacecraft. [00:54:28,700] We had a strap and the spacecraft were falling around a little bit and not too much. [00:54:32,700] Got down the LED right away in the first couple of steps, a combination of the rocking spacecraft [00:54:38,700] and being 1G again. [00:54:41,700] For perhaps, you know, 30 seconds, no more than answering. [00:54:45,700] That was my experience, too. [00:54:47,700] I started doing some deep deep bends right away for maybe 10, 12 of those babies. [00:54:52,700] And I was right back at home again and continued to feel that way. [00:54:55,700] No muscle soreness, no feeling heavy just for anything. [00:54:58,700] Did you, this feeling that you experienced when you first went down the LED was at, was that all over? [00:55:04,700] Or was that just having us in the legs? [00:55:06,700] Or did you just feel heavy all over for me? [00:55:09,700] Just all over for me. [00:55:11,700] How about when you first got some G on re-entry? [00:55:16,700] Did you have a sensation? [00:55:17,700] You had a lot more G than you really registered. [00:55:20,700] You go through that. [00:55:21,700] My right thing over 2G was I supposed to. [00:55:24,700] (Laughter) [00:55:29,700] You know that. [00:55:31,700] Do you like that one? [00:55:32,700] No, I don't know if anybody else has done it. [00:55:34,700] (Laughter) [00:55:36,700] No, I think you become very sensitive to G, like even, even all age on, in the spacecraft, you know. [00:55:45,700] Or, well that'd be, guess on time you'd really feel a G would be, as well as the SPS engine, of course. [00:55:53,700] You know, but on entry, certainly, you know, as you're going through 1G, it certainly doesn't seem like 1G. [00:56:01,700] It's, you're sensitive to the G. [00:56:04,700] Said he said I wasn't quite as busy during that initial period as they were. [00:56:09,700] I didn't have tracking tasks to keep me occupied. [00:56:13,700] I probably felt it more or was conscious of it more than they were. [00:56:17,700] And it felt to me like one hell of a load. [00:56:20,700] In particular, my one task was to be watching the time. [00:56:26,700] I couldn't get my arm up to see the watching until after a peak G let off. [00:56:30,700] And on about 4 or 5G, I could pull my arm up and take a look at it. [00:56:34,700] And I had the same sensation that Al did. [00:56:38,700] Right after I got out of the couch, I felt very, very heavy. [00:56:42,700] And then with just a little bit of motion, it seemed to go away. [00:56:46,700] And I'd say it kind of described a very sharp rise to return normal. [00:56:52,700] A very sharp rise and then an asymptotic to 1G because I still stumbled a couple of times getting out of the helicopter. [00:56:58,700] But I felt fine except I just didn't have the sureness of footing that I would like to have. [00:57:04,700] And that didn't last as far as footing, you know, that's a interesting thing that the Russians had after their A.K. [00:57:12,700] They had some real smart mobility problems that lasted for days. [00:57:18,700] And we've never had anything of that. [00:57:21,700] We've always had some initial footing problem. [00:57:24,700] You know, just getting used to being back on a 1G problem. [00:57:27,700] And then you're on a shift too, which is moving around. [00:57:31,700] And this didn't last for any of you for longer than a few minutes really getting out of the helicopter. [00:57:37,700] No, neither died like this. [00:57:40,700] You were putting your feet in the right place. [00:57:42,700] Did you feel like when you were walking, as you were walking normally, that your steps were normal and everything? [00:57:48,700] You didn't have to worry about where your feet were? [00:57:50,700] No, I think that up to the point we got in the MQF, I felt that it took a little care to make sure my foot was going where it was supposed to be going. [00:58:02,700] But it wasn't out of the ordinary, you know, really severe anything. [00:58:07,700] No, it seemed to be improving very rapidly from a very heavy state for the first 30 to 45 seconds after I got out of the couch [00:58:14,700] to within an hour or so after I was in the MQF, the footing was very short. [00:58:19,700] But I do remember stumbling once going into the MQF from the helicopter. [00:58:24,700] And I didn't see anything stumble over. It just stumbled. [00:58:28,700] You know, I think how you do that right now though. [00:58:31,700] If you're going to walk out of that door with the television camera on you [00:58:34,700] and you're going to walk up to the front of the steps, you'd be more conscious of your footing. [00:58:39,700] You'd be more conscious of your footing whether or not you'd been in zero G or not. [00:58:42,700] If you're like carrying a load, you're going to look very carefully where you're sitting. [00:58:46,700] Do you want to get knocked down? [00:58:48,700] Yeah, and you in particular know that, you know, you've just come back from a flight [00:58:52,700] and people are going to be watching how you're walking and all of this stuff. [00:58:56,700] So, you know, it's in your mind and, you know, you've got to walk this 30 feet to the MQF. [00:59:00,700] I mean, just naturally you're more conscious of where you're going to put your foot. [00:59:04,700] Well, I may have psyched myself into stumbling for that reason, but nevertheless, I did stumble. [00:59:08,700] [laughter] [00:59:10,700] It's part of the fact that I was a conscious of the flight that TV cameras were on. [00:59:15,700] Did you notice any distortion of your facial features at all? [00:59:22,700] Did you weep? [00:59:24,700] If you look at the TV, the in-flight TV, as we watched you, you know, inside the spacecraft, [00:59:30,700] you get the impression that your faces are not like they are now, that they're much rounder. [00:59:37,700] That's a thing that you see on the TV. [00:59:40,700] Is that true? Did you feel that when you were looking at each other? [00:59:44,700] You know, but I observed it when I saw a picture of us taking from that TV. [00:59:48,700] I didn't think anything about it until you mentioned it. [00:59:51,700] It looks quite round. You look much different than you do now. [00:59:57,700] It's very rounded. [00:59:59,700] But you weren't aware of that looking at each other? [01:00:02,700] You know, Al Bean has made a comment of that in the 12 reports. [01:00:07,700] It actually got into orbit. He looked around and everybody looked 20 pounds heavier. [01:00:11,700] And I remember that. [01:00:13,700] And I looked at these guys, you know, and they looked just as bad as they did now. [01:00:19,700] I had to remember that comment from Al Bean's report and I really didn't notice it. [01:00:25,700] The 12 crew, I guess, was the most impressed with that of anybody. [01:00:29,700] And they noticed that they felt even that they had redness of the face for several hours after they first achieved orbit. [01:00:36,700] Well, it's a general failure of all of a sudden. [01:00:39,700] Yes. [01:00:41,700] But I mean, just to look at a person and see his face puffed up, I didn't notice that at all. [01:00:47,700] Maybe it was just lack of observation. [01:00:50,700] But I remember for the first five hours, I went too busy doing the other day. [01:00:55,700] Did you have any sensation that in the first 24 hours in flight that you urinated more than you normally would [01:01:04,700] than you did the rest of the flight time? [01:01:08,700] I don't know. [01:01:09,700] That's a hard thing to remember, but do you have any idea that you did that at all? [01:01:14,700] I never used my UCTA. [01:01:18,700] That first one was a whopper, I know that. [01:01:22,700] Of course, you get a lot of excitement to make it a whopper anyway, so it's hard. [01:01:28,700] No real... [01:01:29,700] No real one with the other one, I didn't see it. [01:01:32,700] Okay. [01:01:35,700] Was the...can you comment on the work that you did EVA out on the lunar surface as far as what you felt [01:01:45,700] based on versus your ground training? [01:01:47,700] Did you think it was harder, easier, about the same? [01:01:50,700] And secondly, as a second question, did either of you feel really physically tired to the point that you knew [01:01:59,700] you were really tired during the EVAs, even going out and calling? [01:02:06,700] I felt, of course, it was an order of magnitude easier than 1G training. [01:02:11,700] Just no comparison at all as we expected it to be. [01:02:16,700] And as far as being tired, I think I had already made up my mind that I did not want to sweat [01:02:25,700] on the moon, that I was going to keep the water up and I was going to keep rested enough so that I didn't sweat [01:02:33,700] for consumables and for fatigue purposes. [01:02:36,700] So I never really felt tired. [01:02:38,700] I did feel occasionally that I was approaching the point where I'd have to have more cooling or take a break. [01:02:45,700] But it wasn't because of a tired feeling. [01:02:47,700] It was the desire to program and plan consumables the way we wanted to. [01:02:51,700] And that do not be hard. [01:02:53,700] So I felt in my mind that I was stopping short of the point of fatigue as a direct plan of not wanting to use up consumables. [01:03:03,700] How am I even out? [01:03:05,700] Well, it's kind of hard to equate the preflight stuff with the flight stuff. [01:03:08,700] First of all, you're not using the LCG and the preflight stuff. [01:03:13,700] You're lifting one, essentially 1G pieces of equipment around so on. [01:03:18,700] So it's pretty hard to equate the two in my mind as to whether it was harder or easier and even flight. [01:03:24,700] On the standpoint of the total workout. [01:03:28,700] But certainly standpoint of ease of mobility is what it is. [01:03:32,700] It's a lot easier to get around. [01:03:34,700] I think you travel a lot faster and easier on the surface because the general comment started off. [01:03:40,700] DBA 1, I did not feel uncomfortable at any time at all. [01:03:44,700] DBA 2, I think the fact that I was unaware of the workload was manifested primarily in a respiration rate as opposed to anything else. [01:03:54,700] I didn't feel as though the body heat was going up too much. [01:04:01,700] The deep body heat was going up too much. [01:04:03,700] I think this is primarily because of the circulating fluid in the LCG. [01:04:07,700] And I was not aware of any profuse of the sweating. [01:04:14,700] Just a little thing to change of sweating and blushing, whatever you want to call it. [01:04:19,700] It was when I went to the medium flow on the water. [01:04:22,700] I think in question, I'm not really aware of an increase in heart rate, [01:04:26,700] but specifically stopping measurement. [01:04:29,700] So I think to me, the thing that was most obvious about the increased workload was the respiration rate. [01:04:36,700] And at times, I think we suggested that climbing the steepest grade of the crater would have come when we stopped and decorated. [01:04:44,700] I think you all suggest that. [01:04:46,700] Right. [01:04:47,700] But the standpoint of being tired to the degree where we didn't want to press on after short a respiration rate, [01:04:56,700] no, I didn't feel that at any time until after the two days was over and we went back into the command module. [01:05:03,700] And it really felt like I was behind the Pollock area as far as a total workload. [01:05:11,700] Well, we'll try and give you some firm feeling for what happened with your UVA's when we do this later. [01:05:18,700] You know, we show you actually what, you know, you did have some times where you both got heart rates that were up in 150 years. [01:05:25,700] And this is why we felt, and your respiratory rates were very audible. [01:05:29,700] And we didn't have a respiration trace on you at that time as you know, but you did have very audible respiratory rates. [01:05:36,700] And it was obvious that you were increasing those. [01:05:39,700] And now I think you began to store, I think you, the thing is you kept yours on men for a long time. [01:05:48,700] And then when you did turn up to medium flow, you just left it there a short period of time. [01:05:54,700] And it didn't kick your rate down as much because you still were maintaining some of that heat in there now. [01:06:00,700] It wasn't enough to make you sweat apparently. [01:06:02,700] And then when you started doing that, turning it on a little bit longer, you just settle right back down. [01:06:08,700] You didn't have any trouble with it at all. [01:06:10,700] But both of you came down very well. [01:06:12,700] When you would rest, your rates dropped down. [01:06:14,700] And that's contrary to what happened on 12, where they didn't drop down when they rested. [01:06:18,700] And yours did very well. [01:06:20,700] They just dropped, they'd come right on down as soon as you stopped doing that activity. [01:06:25,700] So that's it. [01:06:27,700] You have a feeling that you could have, but you have a feeling, any recommendation about extending EVAs now? [01:06:34,700] I mean, do you feel that it would be possible with proper consumables, of course, that you could, that it's physically possible to do that? [01:06:43,700] I sure do. The thing that bothered me was the worrying about consumables. [01:06:50,700] I knew, knowing that we were getting a higher metabolic load, the higher heart rate, more oxygen consumption, going outcome greater, [01:06:57,700] and that I was spending more time on between minimum and intermediate cooling, [01:07:03,700] because we were rushing, deliberately rushing to try to make up time. [01:07:07,700] I started worrying about consumables, and especially in the water in the oxygen. [01:07:12,700] And I felt that was a limiting factor. I didn't feel that I was a limiting factor. [01:07:18,700] Just the oxygen in the water I was consuming were bothering me. [01:07:22,700] Well, we tried to give you the word that you were pretty fat on consumables really at the time. [01:07:27,700] We thought you were trying to save consumables, obviously. [01:07:30,700] Yeah, we were. [01:07:31,700] Yeah. And understandably so. [01:07:34,700] And so we wanted you to know that you had enough and you could go to medium flow without really getting yourself in a hole, [01:07:40,700] because it's the thing we want you to know. [01:07:42,700] And after you did that, I spent considerably more time on between minimum and intermediate [01:07:47,500] levels you did. [01:07:48,700] Yeah. I'll go to Dow. Yeah. You both did. [01:07:51,700] I don't think the comment is like the comment about how the workload was expected to the two-day period. [01:08:00,700] I wouldn't want to see a crew ever plan to do any more than we did in those two days. [01:08:06,700] That's not a concern, that's about heavy workloads anybody ought to do. [01:08:10,700] And certainly, if you're going to go off the long and crazy VBA, you ought to allow a long and crazy investment. [01:08:15,700] And make sure somehow that they get the rest. [01:08:18,700] Yeah. Just allowing the time doesn't necessarily sure rest. [01:08:21,700] Well, tell me, if you had, you know, in the, in the limb, I gather one of the things that you think would help, [01:08:27,700] of course, would be getting out of a suit. That certainly would help if you could get out of a suit in the limb. [01:08:31,700] No question about that. [01:08:33,700] If you had something for sleep, would you take it? Would, wouldn't you guys have taken the limb if you had something for sleep in things? [01:08:39,700] I don't think so because I don't think I don't want to advise her. You don't take that kind of medication here in the ground. [01:08:45,700] It's an individual thing. It's quite obviously and, you know, it just depends on how to do things as closely and, [01:08:51,700] especially if you can't really run environments probably the way everybody would. [01:08:54,700] Right. [01:08:55,700] So if you have people that do that in the ground problems and help them in the... [01:08:59,700] I'd prefer to see us using more natural means of getting a sleep as opposed to an artificial human. [01:09:04,700] You'd like to ask something to sleep on, please. [01:09:06,700] [Laughter] [01:09:09,700] I think the suits are a big thing, as far as I was concerned. [01:09:11,700] Yeah. [01:09:12,700] You keep on coming up. [01:09:13,700] Good role, right? [01:09:14,700] [Laughter] [01:09:15,700] You know, even if you couldn't roll around the hammock and then the neck ring and then the back of the neck and the scum. [01:09:21,700] Yeah. [01:09:22,700] There was one thing, Chuck, about fatigue, the only thing that I felt to keep, [01:09:27,700] any muscle type of tape was a darn hand muscle in the right hand because of the blood. [01:09:32,700] Because you were fighting that glove. [01:09:34,700] Yeah. [01:09:35,700] And working the core tubes, getting unscrewing the core tubes, one of them I couldn't get by myself. [01:09:41,700] Getting the caps off of them, that was very fatiguing and that arm gave out. [01:09:46,700] How about when you're carrying a barbell out there and you're getting this thing? [01:09:49,700] You said you had to do it quietly. [01:09:50,700] Well, that was tiring. [01:09:51,700] It just because it's so cumbersome and it's flopping all around. [01:09:54,700] But I eventually put it across my arms like that and just aside from the workload of carrying it out, it was no problem. [01:10:01,700] It was heavy. [01:10:02,700] It was the weight, didn't seem different because you commented at the time and it sounded and it looked like you were having trouble getting out there. [01:10:10,700] Was it the weight of it or was it just the fact that it was vibrating and it was sort of like the vision of it? [01:10:15,700] It was mostly the vibration of it, just flopping that. [01:10:18,700] flopping that. [01:10:19,700] However, I think that it was heavier than I expected from the 1/6 G mock-up. [01:10:26,700] But we had never carried it that far in training. [01:10:31,700] And I think we made that recommendation that at least once the guys don't carry it the whole way. [01:10:37,700] But it was primarily the flopping of those weights on the end that were giving trouble. [01:10:44,700] Let's get the- I gathered it on this bowel movement thing, the preps and so forth. [01:10:50,700] You had a good comment in there that went fairly well. [01:10:54,700] You all did the same thing. [01:10:55,700] We knew pre-flight anyway. [01:10:57,700] How did it work out though? [01:10:59,700] Do you remember? [01:11:00,700] Can you just tell us each one how you went? [01:11:03,700] I gather it but almost to the end without having one according to a comment. [01:11:07,700] Where did you go? [01:11:09,700] Where did you go? [01:11:10,700] Where did you go? [01:11:11,700] Where did you go? [01:11:16,700] I went for the morning of the 8th day. [01:11:18,700] To the morning of the 8th day it was the first month. [01:11:22,700] And that's the only one I assumed. [01:11:25,700] I didn't plan it that way. [01:11:27,700] What I wanted to do was to have one bowel movement before we went to the surface. [01:11:33,700] So that would take care of that period of time. [01:11:37,700] And I went around with a bag on my fanny for about 12 hours. [01:11:43,700] Hopefully I can do something and never did. [01:11:46,700] And at one point I even wished that we had all axed in important to help me do that. [01:11:53,700] I'm not sure whether that's a good idea or not but it sure seemed like it at the time. [01:11:58,700] And I was really concerned that I need to have a bowel movement while we're on the surface. [01:12:06,700] And I got through that period, figured well we got it made. [01:12:10,700] It could be good to get back to the men module and use the bag. [01:12:14,700] And I still couldn't. [01:12:15,700] It was the 8th day. [01:12:17,700] And it was a walker. [01:12:19,700] Did you ever get any cramps or anything like that? [01:12:22,700] No, but never had any gut. [01:12:23,700] Got no surface at all. [01:12:25,700] I wasn't uncomfortable. [01:12:26,700] I didn't even have a feeling of fullness. [01:12:28,700] Good. [01:12:29,700] How about you out? [01:12:30,700] How did your cycle go? [01:12:33,700] Well I had one and a half bags on the 3rd day before us. [01:12:41,700] And another bag on about the 7th day, certain kind of thing. [01:12:50,700] And no problem. [01:12:51,700] There were normal consistency in the tourist part. [01:12:54,700] But that's really it. [01:12:56,700] I agree with you. [01:12:58,700] We got to fight it better. [01:13:00,700] The total hygiene thing in this thing is so our take is unbelievable. [01:13:06,700] We just got to do better in that if we're going to keep people in space. [01:13:10,700] It's really the only time we didn't feel civilized. [01:13:12,700] Yeah. [01:13:13,700] The whole mess as a big man. [01:13:16,700] And the ability to clean up afterwards and affect is the ability to maintain personal hygiene [01:13:22,700] throughout the flight. [01:13:23,700] It's only if we need better stuff. [01:13:26,700] Still how about you? [01:13:27,700] I went to 80 hours. [01:13:30,700] I remember distinctly because I said between 80 and 81 hours approaching L.O.I. while I'm going to do it. [01:13:36,700] Which pleasantly surprised me too while we're on the gory subject because pre-flight I anticipated [01:13:45,700] that I might have to use the bag more than that because in my normal course of events it's very common for me to hit the head at least twice a day. [01:13:56,700] And so I was pleasantly surprised that I got to 80 hours. [01:14:00,700] And then I had one other one and it was after TDI. [01:14:05,700] I guess the next day after TDI and I don't remember what time frame it was. [01:14:11,700] It was the day after TDI. [01:14:17,700] And okay I don't remember the G.E.T. or anything. I can't associate it with anything except these guys and their guests. [01:14:27,700] I don't know what else is going on at that time. [01:14:30,700] Yeah, these guys. [01:14:34,700] Okay. [01:14:39,700] When did you first start to use the nose drops? [01:14:41,700] How far into that? [01:14:43,700] Do you remember what date? [01:14:45,700] Three I think. [01:14:47,700] Third date. [01:14:48,700] And do you feel that that was a, I'm a little bit confused about your description. [01:14:54,700] You're describing this fullness. [01:14:56,700] And still do you feel that this was a thing that was associated with this fullness that was due to the weightlessness or do you think it was an oxygen effect? [01:15:06,700] Just due to the drying and so forth. [01:15:08,700] I never felt that dry. [01:15:11,700] And at the time I thought it could have been either or both. [01:15:15,700] And so I just treated it symptomatically with a couple of about one drop in each nostril and it was completely infected for the next ten to twelve hours. [01:15:24,700] Well you could hear it. This is a fairly routine. You hear this in the guy's voices and you know they're doing it. [01:15:28,700] You hear this full feeling that they have. [01:15:31,700] Sometimes they get a little bit of horse sensation with it too. [01:15:36,700] And it comes and goes and you described it I thought very well yesterday and I didn't want it to be. [01:15:42,700] You wake up and be better in the morning. [01:15:45,700] You know. [01:15:46,700] I don't know. This is kind of a subjective feeling. [01:15:51,700] It kind of felt that maybe the whole full head sensation was related to a really doesn't mean the whole cardiovascular system. [01:15:59,700] And therefore it is. [01:16:06,700] If you could relax a little bit in the evening and help at this point there. [01:16:11,700] I mean you kind of wished it that way. [01:16:14,700] It's just a general feeling. [01:16:16,700] I think it's a substantiated one. [01:16:18,700] And I think as far as the nose drops have been sort of helped with the mucus. [01:16:22,700] But it didn't help the overall full sensation. [01:16:25,700] Did they work all right? [01:16:27,700] They made it clear out the mucus temporarily a few hours. [01:16:33,700] Yeah. [01:16:34,700] And still what about now did you just give yourself too big a slug? [01:16:38,700] Is that what happened to it? [01:16:39,700] I think I probably did Chuck. [01:16:41,700] I'm sure that's what happened. [01:16:42,700] You know I said well I hadn't used any up to land but on entry. [01:16:46,700] You know I said well I think I'll just use some of these beauties. [01:16:50,700] And I think I hit maybe too big a dose in the right nostril here because poor my eye started watering and I could feel it my sinuses and everything else. [01:17:00,700] And then but it lasted maybe an hour. [01:17:04,700] And by the time I probably did that a couple three hours prior to entry and an hour later you know I think most of the symptoms have gone away that you're getting closer to entry and you stop worrying about it. [01:17:16,700] But I did I think I overdid it. [01:17:21,700] And I just you know I hardly ever take any nose drops or anything. [01:17:28,700] And maybe I just got too much in there. [01:17:30,700] It's probably pretty powerful stuff. [01:17:31,700] It is powerful. [01:17:32,700] I know if I in one G or here if I take more than a couple drops of effort if I use drops instead of spray I get the same effect. [01:17:40,700] And it wasn't a lack of briefing or not trying it before flight or anything like that. [01:17:48,700] I think I just a little overzealous in that in the application. [01:17:51,700] Well you know two drops of good. [01:17:52,700] Give us four. [01:17:53,700] Yeah. [01:17:54,700] What the hell. [01:17:55,700] Did you feel it you got any did you get a tack of cardio with that you didn't really increase in heart rate with that. [01:18:01,700] Oh I haven't focused on it. [01:18:03,700] You didn't you didn't feel it anyway. [01:18:05,700] Yeah. [01:18:06,700] Y'all had. [01:18:10,700] It comes a little more adrenaline. [01:18:11,700] You got mad at us for suggesting that we use the gun. [01:18:16,700] Y'all stayed off at the suggestion. [01:18:20,700] Did you all had some some evidence in your ears on after on the first exam when Bill saw you having some some bubbles in there. [01:18:31,700] And did you have any sensation during reentry that you were having trouble clearing your ears any of you. [01:18:37,700] No sense. [01:18:38,700] No. [01:18:39,700] That's right. [01:18:39,700] It's surprising to me I was looking for it. [01:18:41,700] It's surprising to me. [01:18:42,700] I have no problem. [01:18:43,700] No I'm bad. [01:18:44,700] I could feel the pressure change. [01:18:46,700] But I know I could hear them pop. [01:18:49,700] But you know I could do I did that too on my suit integrity check. [01:18:53,700] I could feel the pressure. [01:18:54,700] Yeah. [01:18:55,700] And you know and you just sort of pop it. [01:18:57,700] Had like me come in before I forget about this voice sounding full. [01:19:01,700] You know I noticed that that you'll do that a lot if you I think maybe it's because the atmosphere is dry. [01:19:07,700] But if you're doing a lot of talking and then you come on and I would notice myself sounding sound and full. [01:19:13,700] And I said gee I'm sounding like that. [01:19:16,700] And my head wasn't constantly full at all. [01:19:19,700] But I could tell in my voice that I was sounding. [01:19:22,700] You're in your voice. [01:19:23,700] If you've been doing a lot of talking. [01:19:25,700] Right. [01:19:26,700] Well that's true. [01:19:27,700] If you do you know like if you end up just talking all day like if you end up here like in a session. [01:19:32,700] Yesterday when you talked a lot. [01:19:34,700] That kind of thing if you just talk a lot during the day. [01:19:38,700] You can have it. [01:19:39,700] We don't have to myself do it here Charles. [01:19:41,700] Yeah. [01:19:42,700] Now back to that. [01:19:44,700] Hey Chuck. [01:19:45,700] Come in on those. [01:19:46,700] We were looking for somebody to kind of go out. [01:19:51,700] Who is it? [01:19:52,700] I'm getting into the half of it. [01:19:56,700] The comment on the after bottle. [01:19:58,700] The pressure gets to them and they separate into the jillion bubbles. [01:20:02,700] That emulsion is very bubbly filled with air. [01:20:06,700] As soon as you take the cap off it comes out. [01:20:08,700] It starts leaking. [01:20:09,700] It's a knowledge. [01:20:11,700] Okay. [01:20:12,700] Okay. [01:20:13,700] And it's kind of difficult to control that stuff. [01:20:18,700] That was the first time you opened the bottle. [01:20:20,700] All right. [01:20:22,700] Always. [01:20:23,700] Every time you open it up. [01:20:28,700] Okay. [01:20:29,700] So what technique did you use for finding those drops? [01:20:33,700] How did you put it in? [01:20:34,700] Very gentle squeeze trying to get just one drop of your time out. [01:20:39,700] Just put the drop up. [01:20:40,700] Put it in there and hose it. [01:20:43,700] Just like we told it to. [01:20:46,700] [Laughter] [01:20:55,700] What did you take those PRDs down in your suits? [01:21:01,700] Take them. [01:21:02,700] I don't believe it. [01:21:03,700] Charles, we had zipper pockets. [01:21:05,700] You're kidding. [01:21:07,700] It's unbelievable. [01:21:09,700] They weren't there. [01:21:10,700] We pulled out those coveralls and they were zippers on them. [01:21:13,700] First time we'd seen zippers, no old trays. [01:21:16,700] I'll be. [01:21:17,700] They're not in the training suits. [01:21:18,700] They're just out of this place. [01:21:20,700] They're so close. [01:21:21,700] Well, how about that? [01:21:23,700] Okay. [01:21:24,700] Where did we get? [01:21:25,700] We had requested it way, way back and forgotten about that we made the official request and it was already in the mail and nobody who put it. [01:21:33,700] And now the training devices were that way below and below and below and below. [01:21:36,700] The package they came with. [01:21:38,700] [Laughter] [01:21:39,700] Oh, that's great. [01:21:40,700] They were great too. [01:21:42,700] [Inaudible] [01:21:50,700] Okay. [01:21:51,700] [Inaudible] [01:21:57,700] Well, I don't understand what that is. [01:21:59,700] Well, when you remove your PGA's out, is there a point of the checklist where we should include the removal of the PRDs back into your flight coveralls or is that not there? [01:22:11,700] It's already says, take all the items out of here. [01:22:14,700] Oh, it does? [01:22:15,700] It says. [01:22:16,700] That happens to be one that's by itself. [01:22:17,700] I see. [01:22:18,700] If you forget that extra pockets there, you're good. [01:22:21,700] Well, now it's listed in there when we take the suits off the first day. [01:22:28,700] I guess, you know, and then when you bring the suits back over from the land wide, you know, a pretty rushed timeline that, I don't know, is it being a good to put that in your timeline book or not? [01:22:40,700] Because at that time, your main purpose is just get the suits and get them stuck. [01:22:45,700] Yeah, you said you jerk them down and kind of zipped up in those bangs pretty fast. [01:22:49,700] Right into the back. [01:22:52,700] Okay. [01:22:54,700] Probably wouldn't hurt, I guess, when we list the items to take out of the suits. [01:22:58,700] When we come back to the land, we've just had PRDs in there as another item. [01:23:03,700] Well, this sunglasses and pencils and all the rest of them. [01:23:06,700] That's right. [01:23:11,700] When you said you used sunglasses, you only wanted to use sunglasses. [01:23:16,700] Is that right? [01:23:19,700] Okay, when did you use the correct one? [01:23:26,700] Just in the command module. [01:23:31,700] No, I don't know. [01:23:40,700] Did you have any feeling about that on the lunar surface that the light levels were bothersome to you because of that? [01:23:49,700] Because that is a very typical thing. [01:23:52,700] The light levels were generally higher in the lunar module. [01:23:57,700] The thing that you don't simulate on the LMS is the difference between day and night on the afternoon. [01:24:03,700] How about out on the surface? [01:24:07,700] How about out on the surface when you were actually out on the surface and had your visor down? [01:24:12,700] Did those light levels bother you at all? [01:24:15,700] Did you feel that you were having any difficulties? [01:24:20,700] Yeah, the problems I had was reading small print that were close, just in the light levels low, and I had the problem in the LMS. [01:24:29,700] A couple of times from the CMS in the LMS, I think I don't know how many times I wrote them out. [01:24:33,700] I don't know, perhaps six or eight times. [01:24:36,700] I'll try to read them down in this car because it's the best only time I've ever seen you use them. [01:24:40,700] Yeah, but all the surface chug, it's either dark white, I mean dazzling white, or it's absolutely black. [01:24:45,700] Or it's black. [01:24:47,700] I don't think I said it had a great deal to do with it at that point. [01:24:50,700] Yeah, that's right. [01:24:52,700] I think you've covered most of that stuff about the vision on the surface and sort of pretty well in there. [01:24:57,700] I think you've done that very well in the thing, so I don't think we need to. [01:25:01,700] If we have something that comes back up for that, we'll give the word to you. [01:25:04,700] But as far as I can tell from getting through all that so far, I think we've got most of that covered. [01:25:09,700] You know, I might point out to you if you want to pursue the visibility further for any sort of medical things. [01:25:15,700] If you look at the photographs, in my opinion, they're exactly what we saw. [01:25:19,700] Is that right? [01:25:20,700] If you look cross-sun, the visibility is great. [01:25:23,700] If you look up-sun, everything's layered out by the sun. [01:25:27,700] If you look down-sun, all of the general, the sun rolling, and the subdued craters, they just disappear on them. [01:25:34,700] But cross-sun visibility is great, and the photographs show up the same way. [01:25:38,700] You know, just real brief on that same subject, it's kind of hard to tell when you're looking at just negatives [01:25:44,700] at 70 millimeters, but I was looking at some of the zero-phase pictures last night [01:25:49,700] and how the targets would disappear at zero-phase. [01:25:52,700] It does it on the films also. [01:25:54,700] And as it turned out, I'll have to get, you know, see what the prints look like. [01:25:59,700] But my first impression is that I didn't see much more than what the camera did at zero-phase, [01:26:04,700] which is going to surprise me because I would have thought different. [01:26:08,700] But I don't take that as any sort of data until I've had a chance to really see a blown-up print. [01:26:13,700] You know, I'm just looking at some negatives in here. [01:26:16,700] But that's my first impression. [01:26:18,700] We've always said that the eyeball can see more than the film can, [01:26:22,700] but with our particular film, I think they're a pretty good correspondent. [01:26:26,700] Not going to be about the same. [01:26:27,700] That's great. [01:26:29,700] Yeah, it's insinuating we have a bad eyeball. [01:26:32,700] No, we just have a good film. [01:26:34,700] That's a pretty great thing. [01:26:37,700] Hey, on the sunglasses, I guess you got it. [01:26:39,700] And as far as I know, nobody even broke their sunglasses out. [01:26:43,700] Right. [01:26:44,700] And you didn't see any of them? [01:26:45,700] No, I didn't. [01:26:47,700] Well, I think the only time we needed them was when there was sunshafting in. [01:26:51,700] But in PTC, you just wait a couple minutes. [01:26:54,700] It could be gone. [01:26:55,700] It goes away. [01:26:56,700] Okay. [01:26:57,700] And there was a time in 196 hours where we lost your respiratory, your CPN. [01:27:05,700] Did you notice whether it was the signal conditioner disconnected then, [01:27:10,700] or was there a sensor loose or anything? [01:27:12,700] No, there was nothing different. [01:27:13,700] It just went. [01:27:14,700] You couldn't see anything obvious as to why. [01:27:18,700] No, it went down and went over the whole system. [01:27:20,700] We checked the sensors, checked the belt, checked the connection. [01:27:26,700] And we were getting too close to entry to really do a great deal of troubleshooting. [01:27:30,700] There was no point to do it then. [01:27:33,700] Okay, fine. [01:27:34,700] Well, we're going to check those in. [01:27:36,700] We've never had a signal conditioner as such fail. [01:27:39,700] And that's one of the things that's sort of interesting to win the sensor problem. [01:27:43,700] We want to be sure to check those signal conditioners out. [01:27:46,700] Okay. [01:27:49,700] I think we've got most of this mobility thing done in there. [01:27:53,700] I was talking about that, Bob and Bill. [01:27:55,700] Let me just say, I think my urine bite problem, the U-C-T-A, is kind of related to that bill. [01:28:01,700] And that, you know, the U-C-T-A is held by that plastic strap. [01:28:05,700] Right. [01:28:06,700] Yeah, I think the problem in getting that hose length correct has to do with the fact that [01:28:11,700] the U-C-T doesn't always end up in the same place. [01:28:15,700] You try to get it below the belt so that it doesn't get on top of it and increase the [01:28:20,700] dimension of the way you already know. [01:28:22,700] And I think in doing that, I've probably been worried a little more, you know, [01:28:26,700] before the gun down here, maybe, in retrospect. [01:28:31,700] In some way, I think it'd be fixed. [01:28:34,700] Yeah. [01:28:35,700] Then it wouldn't move up and down. [01:28:37,700] And therefore, you could adjust the hose length. [01:28:41,700] Who better? [01:28:44,700] I wore mine differently. [01:28:45,700] I wore mine over the belt. [01:28:47,700] That might be the deal. [01:28:48,700] Well, I think it's a question of fixing the vertical height of that thing. [01:28:53,700] You can't get to the right length of the hose because mine was up and down. [01:28:56,700] I think when you reached in, you probably thought it was sagging down as a result of being [01:29:00,700] full of fluid in one hand, but also because I used to work below the U-C belt and the other. [01:29:06,700] Yeah. [01:29:07,700] But his hose had a definite kink in it. [01:29:09,700] It came out of the fitting. [01:29:10,700] It made a sharp kink. [01:29:12,700] And it was, it was like a, it was kink just like you see it on the pin. [01:29:16,700] Yeah. [01:29:17,700] Very good. [01:29:19,700] Did you have, did you feel any real dryness of skin as such or dryness of your lips or [01:29:27,700] your nose at all? [01:29:28,700] Did you ever have any sensation that way? [01:29:31,700] Not exceptionally for me. [01:29:33,700] I shouldn't have any obvious sensations. [01:29:36,700] I know, I don't know the stupid. [01:29:38,700] I noticed his lips were cracking about the fourth or fifth day. [01:29:41,700] We got lagging from TDI's. [01:29:43,700] But I don't know what you got it about. [01:29:45,700] So I didn't feel dry, in fact I know they're cracking in here too. [01:29:51,700] But no, I didn't, I didn't feel any dryness particularly though. [01:29:59,700] Okay. [01:30:00,700] I think we got these all together. [01:30:03,700] Did they talk to you about the Phil Chandler and I wanted to tack on the light flash thing [01:30:10,700] on the end of this thing? [01:30:11,700] Yeah. [01:30:12,700] Yeah. [01:30:17,700] Hey Chuck, just real fast. [01:30:20,700] I know you've got to take the data and you're looking ahead to the longer flights. [01:30:27,700] I'm not trying to downplay it. [01:30:29,700] But this weight loss, you know, I think in my case I don't want to be misconstrued. [01:30:34,700] You know, I was just sitting there thinking, you know, I weighed less after our field trip to Iceland than I did after this flight too. [01:30:41,700] You know, a weight loss of me of five pounds is no, just, you know, comes and goes with no problem at all. [01:30:50,700] That's why the body water things are going to be pretty important. [01:30:53,700] Yeah. [01:30:54,700] You know, is that really it? [01:30:55,700] You know, is it really a total body water loss? [01:30:58,700] I don't, that'll be a real important plug to hang on there. [01:31:03,700] That's why we'll go over that way so it is, it is clear. [01:31:07,700] We won't have a total body water or something or exercise your food spaces. [01:31:11,700] We'll have to quarantine now when we've done the data. [01:31:15,700] Those are, those are data matters. [01:31:17,700] We're just doing the gamma counting in here. [01:31:21,700] Why can't we get it out? [01:31:23,700] I don't want to lie to you that way. [01:31:25,700] We're just not, we're just not quick. [01:31:29,700] Let's get it out. [01:31:32,700] I'll talk with you later. [01:31:35,700] Okay. [01:31:37,700] There's a scientist, let's go. [01:31:39,700] Let's go. [01:31:44,700] Yeah, there he is. [01:31:45,700] Phil, go out. [01:31:47,700] If y'all want any coffee, I've got a big pot right here. [01:31:49,700] Yeah, I'm coming over to get some run now. [01:31:51,700] What are you doing? [01:31:54,700] I think suggested that, that we should tack on a few questions about light flashes. [01:32:00,700] The end is briefing. [01:32:01,700] That's what we're about to do. [01:32:03,700] What we'd like to do is to clarify some of the subjective impressions that you've got [01:32:09,700] of what you saw on the way of light flashes and also to, to clarify the conditions under which you saw them. [01:32:17,700] Steve, can you stand back from the mic just a little bit? [01:32:20,700] That's a boom mic. [01:32:22,700] He told you to sit right here and he'll pick it up. [01:32:24,700] He'll be really glad of us out there. [01:32:26,700] Let's go. [01:32:31,700] You need to get really close, in my case. [01:32:34,700] You should arrive in my case. [01:32:35,700] Is there a way that the room could be dark? [01:32:37,700] That the room could be dark? [01:32:39,700] Yeah. [01:32:40,700] In a while. [01:32:42,700] You know what? [01:32:43,700] Okay, the first question we got is the streaks that you saw with a very sharp phenomenon or with a rather diffuse, like fuzzy. [01:32:55,700] One's I saw were very sharp because there was no mistaking what it was. [01:33:01,700] It was a streak. [01:33:02,700] So long. [01:33:03,700] Against the pen, your sleeve was very cool. [01:33:05,700] Yeah, I think that's correct. [01:33:07,700] Both the single streak and the double shot occurred to be very clear to me. [01:33:15,700] They were quite clear. [01:33:17,700] I think I made the comment over the look that most of my streaks appeared to be on the periphery. [01:33:24,700] And for the first several days, I got the impression that this direction was predominant. [01:33:32,700] Later on, it appeared that I don't think I could get that good pattern. [01:33:37,700] But that was my first impression for the first couple of days. [01:33:41,700] The next question is, was there any apparent direction of propagation? [01:33:45,700] And could you tell it was coming from one side to the other or was it just a flash? [01:33:51,700] Several times you'd say, from the left to the right or something like that. [01:33:55,700] Tried to correlate it, but in my case, I couldn't really correlate a pattern out of it. [01:34:00,700] Yeah, I would think that the time period in which we tried to report them streak by streak, flash by flash, was represented. [01:34:09,700] And it was my feeling that it was generally random during that time period and therefore generally random throughout the time that we were noticing. [01:34:18,700] No, I meant, could you detect that it was moving from one side to the other in general? [01:34:23,700] It was moving in a specific way. [01:34:26,700] A specific flash, yes, yes. [01:34:29,700] But you could see it as a travel from one side to the other. [01:34:32,700] You could have tried to report it that way. [01:34:34,700] You never want to mess the way the flash is coming up because it happens. [01:34:37,700] It has to be very fast, you know. [01:34:39,700] And that question kind of redundant then? [01:34:41,700] I didn't believe you. [01:34:47,700] Was there some character to these flashes that had some aspect of direction? [01:34:52,700] Were they all the same rod shaped or were they? [01:34:55,700] Did they have a tail on them? [01:34:57,700] Well, so what I reported as a streak was simply that. [01:35:03,700] Now maybe the way we determined the direction subconsciously was that it was a ball of light moving in a direction leaving a tail. [01:35:14,700] But I don't, I can't say that for sure. [01:35:17,700] All I reported was a streak and I had the impression of it moving from one direction to the other. [01:35:23,700] And I reported that direction and I can't clarify if I could form that. [01:35:28,700] Do you want to ask me a question? [01:35:30,700] We just don't ask the lights. [01:35:31,700] I think they can see this in the dark room. [01:35:33,700] But just try it. [01:35:35,700] The idea is to try to see whether this is what you saw or similar to it. [01:35:39,700] I think you need to like that. [01:35:41,700] Can you see anything? [01:35:43,700] Yeah, that's what it looked like except it was traveling. [01:35:46,700] In other words, it started out and it definitely progressed across the field of view. [01:35:52,700] The direction of motion for an individual. [01:35:55,700] Was it that right? [01:35:57,700] Yeah, except you're not traveling. It was traveling. [01:36:00,700] You saw it at the point that it was a streak. [01:36:03,700] I know that it seemed too simultaneously either. [01:36:06,700] Neither did I. [01:36:07,700] You have two streaks on that. I never saw that. [01:36:12,700] At one time you saw a semi-colonary thing. [01:36:17,700] So what? [01:36:18,700] A semi-colonary thing.
NASA-UAP-D027, Apollo 14 Debriefing (Continued), 1971
Segment 2 of 2 of NASA's Apollo 14 post-mission crew debriefing at the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston, covering the crew's discussion of the cosmic-ray light flash phenomenon.
[00:00:00,000] to my streets appeared to be on the periphery and for the first several days I got the impression [00:00:11,140] that this direction was predominant. Later on it appeared that I don't think I could [00:00:16,780] get that good a pattern but that was my first impression for the first couple of days. [00:00:23,420] The next question was there any apparent direction of propagation and could you tell it was coming from one side to the other for which the system would apply? [00:00:33,760] Some of them I didn't say from the left of the right was something like that. [00:00:37,400] I tried to correlate it but in my case I couldn't really correlate a pattern out of it. [00:00:42,480] Yeah I would think that the time period in which we tried to report them street by street, flash by flash was representative. [00:00:52,320] It was my feeling that it was generally random during that time period and therefore generally random throughout the time that we were noticing them. [00:01:00,700] No I meant could you detect that it was moving from one side to the other? [00:01:05,040] Oh yeah. [00:01:05,780] It was moving in a specific way. [00:01:07,940] In a specific flash yes yes. [00:01:11,020] You could see it as a travel from one side to the other. [00:01:14,120] You really think we tried to report it that way didn't we? [00:01:16,040] Yes you never want to mess the way it was puzzling us because it has to be very fast you know. [00:01:20,940] And that question kind of redundant then? [00:01:23,940] I didn't believe you. [00:01:25,540] Was there some character to these flashes that had some aspect of direction? [00:01:34,920] Were they all the same Ron shaped or were they they have a tail on them? [00:01:40,520] Well what I so what I reported as a streak was simply that now maybe the way we determine the direction [00:01:50,320] subconsciously was that it was a ball of light moving in a direction leaving a tail. [00:01:56,620] But I don't I can't say that for sure all I reported was a streak and I had the impression of it moving from one direction to the other. [00:02:05,520] And I reported that direction and I can't clarify it much more than that. [00:02:09,980] Do you want to ask me a question we just tell the lights I think they can see this in the dark room. [00:02:15,840] But just right the idea is to try to see whether this is what you saw or similar to it. [00:02:21,680] I think you need to like that then wow can you see anything? [00:02:25,760] Yeah except that's what it looked like except it was traveling in other words it started out and it definitely progressed across the field of view. [00:02:35,080] The direction of motion for an individual was that right? [00:02:39,760] Yeah except you're not traveling it was traveling. [00:02:43,560] You started it quite a bit easy. [00:02:46,000] I never did see too simultaneously either. [00:02:48,520] Neither did I. [00:02:49,720] You have two streaks on that I never saw that. [00:02:55,320] At one time you saw a semicolon shaped thing. [00:02:59,920] So what? [00:03:00,640] A semicolon shaped object this was in the first report before the... [00:03:07,520] I never did. [00:03:09,240] If I reported it that's what I saw but I don't remember it. [00:03:12,600] Did you see anything that looked like this? [00:03:16,560] All I'd say is whatever was reported is what I saw. [00:03:20,280] No I you know we discussed the various shapes prior to flight and I concentrated pretty hard on trying to see the shapes and I think as I reported that. [00:03:32,000] No it was either a streak and just a rather simple streak or it was a flash and rather a simple flash. [00:03:40,040] Nothing too exotic about it and on a more rare one would be maybe just a pinpoint of light for an instant rather than get the idea of a flash that would just be a pinpoint for a second and it would be gone but that was more rare than the other two. [00:04:00,400] Yeah I meant you know like watching an explosion you know just a ball versus just a steady dot yes. [00:04:14,520] Was it was it like this at all? [00:04:17,080] Did you see that? [00:04:18,160] No. [00:04:20,120] Can I see this one? [00:04:22,680] I think it's a whole house boy. [00:04:24,520] Can I see it? [00:04:27,160] Can't see it. [00:04:29,280] We're not getting any lighting. [00:04:30,640] I don't think it's lighting. [00:04:32,080] Oh that there was something just as you turned it there. [00:04:38,800] Okay you can see that. [00:04:39,720] I mean multiple this one. [00:04:45,080] Okay that to me would be the pinpoint that I'm describing the the eruption or the the novas we call them would be more of an explosion. [00:04:55,720] Yeah yeah yeah well you've got a very very bright center and a diffused edge. [00:05:05,200] I would say that the impression I had which you would have an area like that indicating a blow up but the center wasn't predominantly that bright but that that's getting closer to what we would call what I would refer to as a nova or a flash. [00:05:22,680] It's not as bright as what I call the nova yeah. [00:05:26,360] And was your nova in explosion like this or a discrete flight flight? [00:05:32,280] No it was what I call the nova was was more of a blob that seemed to start with that and kind of expand. [00:05:40,480] More diffused yeah I'm more diffused as the time went on. [00:05:45,680] But brighter than that. [00:05:46,880] That's what I'm about what I call a flash or a star. [00:05:53,240] Here again you've got too much contrast between the center and the diffused area there though. [00:06:00,880] Also your time frame that your flashing gets too low it was faster than that. [00:06:05,880] Am I right? [00:06:06,880] And what you just said that when you said flash you really meant a star and not a not a would not what you just described. [00:06:12,880] I think I almost didn't use flash and star interchangeably. [00:06:16,880] That's not true for you. [00:06:18,880] No when I flash nova to me were essentially the same thing only distinction I make is the pinpoint versus an explosion. [00:06:29,880] Okay I think what Stu was calling a pinpoint was about what I'd call a star or flash and a nova to me was a much bigger brighter thing. [00:06:41,880] Okay a couple of quick ones. [00:06:43,880] First of all the cabin lighting exactly was it completely dark where there's some instrument lights still on. [00:06:48,880] Absolutely dark. [00:06:49,880] Absolutely dark. [00:06:50,880] Okay well yeah there is you talk about the time period that we ran this quantitative report. [00:06:57,880] Right right completely dark. [00:06:59,880] Okay and did you have your eyes closed most of the time where they open in the dark cabin. [00:07:04,880] Mind we're both. [00:07:12,880] Even though we had the window shades and when we roll around to the sun when we hit the window there'd be some light seepage around we were aware of that end of the time. [00:07:15,880] So during that time where we at least I made the time to close my eyes closed open otherwise and of course we closed our eyes when it had flipped his flashlight on. [00:07:25,880] But generally speaking the eyes were open. [00:07:27,880] No mine was almost closed all the time. I was floating down the corner of the LED but I kept my eyes closed because I didn't know when I rolled into the sun and I didn't want to pick up any light at all. [00:07:41,880] Okay the next question on the flashlight was when you shine it in your eyes what was the approximate duration in each eye about how many seconds. [00:07:49,880] Well I just kind of moved it across for over five seconds or so five six seconds it hurt it's very bright. [00:07:58,880] And the next question on still your orientation in the LED you said you were looking toward plus X is will you across. [00:08:09,880] Generally you know how you have the three couches and plus X is I was oriented this way with my head looking face up down in this corner. [00:08:21,880] So your head was in the same direction as it would be if you were on the couch. [00:08:25,880] Yes that's it. [00:08:27,880] The next question is in almost every case you did report that it was in one eye the other is one incident where you had both eye and my question is maybe someone redundant but you absolutely certain that you could distinguish that it was one eye as opposed to. [00:08:46,880] Yeah I felt I was getting more in the left than the right for some reason but in fact the fact you're all heavily biased was the right on the one on your report. [00:08:56,880] Really very heavily like like rear water one. [00:08:59,880] I would have sworn that I was biased to the left. [00:09:01,880] You have 12 right and six left and Al you had ten right and four left and of the ones you reported still you had six right and two left and the rest were in the lower courts or both eye. [00:09:15,880] And it was all very heavily been biased to the right eye. [00:09:18,880] At first present. [00:09:19,880] No well. [00:09:20,880] Well I was talking about that. [00:09:23,880] It seems to me that I would get a flash or a streak or whatever the phenomenon or whatever the shape was simultaneously with somebody else reporting. [00:09:33,880] That's exactly the next question. [00:09:35,880] And there were three from listening to the tapes three events and it occurred in cases where different pairs were followed. [00:09:45,880] Which were coincidences where I think in one case Ed you said flash and then Al you said simultaneous with him. [00:09:55,880] I had a flash in the whole right eye. [00:09:57,880] Now my question would be when it was simultaneous was it after he began speaking or was it in fact. [00:10:04,880] It was his words good enough for you to have been a mark on your flash. [00:10:08,880] Well certainly with an infraction in the second I think it was simultaneous. [00:10:12,880] Yeah a couple of times it happened to me it was his mark or whoever the mark he was was good enough. [00:10:18,880] Okay. [00:10:20,880] Same here. [00:10:21,880] And the next question is earlier before the session when you were describing some of the subjective observations you mentioned the halos that you'd seen. [00:10:31,880] That you'd see a flash followed by a... [00:10:34,880] And we finally had to take his halo off to put it away. [00:10:37,880] (Laughter) [00:10:41,880] Sweet as the upside. [00:10:44,880] Well okay. [00:10:45,880] The actor effects. [00:10:48,880] Were they present most of the time didn't you see? [00:10:51,880] Did you have a lot of cognizance of a spike and then a sort of glow afterwards? [00:10:56,880] Only on what I call the nova and the supernova. [00:10:59,880] Is that true for you to do? [00:11:04,880] I really know the halo effect myself. [00:11:08,880] I guess I'm not sure what we're calling the halo effect. [00:11:12,880] You mean a diffused brightness? [00:11:15,880] More like an actor. [00:11:18,880] Did I call any of those? I sure don't remember it. [00:11:21,880] No I didn't describe it. [00:11:22,880] Yeah I don't think I saw any of those. [00:11:25,880] And the other question we had was... [00:11:29,880] Do you remember making any observations in lunar orbit? [00:11:32,880] It's not, I know there were no formal theories but... [00:11:37,880] You know I thought about that on the way back. [00:11:40,880] And I was so tired that night that I really don't remember seeing any flashes but I didn't look for any either. [00:11:49,880] So I guess the question would be I consciously did not see any but... [00:11:54,880] I wouldn't take that as a data function. [00:11:58,880] And then the final question I have is... [00:12:01,880] After our formal session I was in about 191 GET. [00:12:07,880] You then had a sleep period later on. [00:12:09,880] Do you remember whether you saw any during that sleep period closer in? [00:12:13,880] It's significant whether you're inside the magnetopole. [00:12:17,880] I don't consciously recall but I don't really recall if there was any night except on the lunar surface. [00:12:23,880] That I didn't and sometime or another see some. [00:12:28,880] You definitely didn't see any on the lunar surface? [00:12:31,880] I just know I don't remember about the lunar surface. [00:12:34,880] There was precious little sleep at night at the end. [00:12:37,880] Okay well I saw all the questions I had. [00:12:39,880] We'd call some light for a minute. [00:12:42,880] Well while you're dousing light I have one additional question. [00:12:46,880] Did you get the impression that light flashes could have been within the cabin or definitely within your eye? [00:12:52,880] Definitely within the eye. [00:12:54,880] Okay. [00:12:55,880] I want to get some idea about orientation and length of the streets. [00:13:02,880] Did you ever see anything about light? [00:13:04,880] No, no I never did. [00:13:07,880] You used the terminology of six o'clock or hours of the clock. [00:13:14,880] Does that mean do you say six o'clock to the center about how long the street is at? [00:13:20,880] That's a hard question to answer. [00:13:22,880] If you were visualizing something about the arms length away from you, [00:13:30,880] how long would you say your long history was? [00:13:34,880] That long? [00:13:35,880] Did you see my fingers? [00:13:37,880] I'll show them. [00:13:38,880] Let me describe it a different way. [00:13:40,880] It appeared to me that the things I would say were three or four inches away from my plane [00:13:49,880] whatever that means and were a couple inches long. [00:13:54,880] Tell us what it means. [00:13:56,880] A couple inches long. [00:13:57,880] It's reinforced inches in front of you. [00:14:00,880] It looked like this. [00:14:03,880] Too long for me. [00:14:06,880] Two, I guess. [00:14:08,880] Do you see that one up above? [00:14:11,880] One up above looks better. [00:14:13,880] Probably fairly close. [00:14:20,880] Yeah, I'd say as close as the longest one. [00:14:23,880] See, I'm not sure what our scale is here. [00:14:26,880] I'd rather say that if I consider whatever it may be, [00:14:30,880] but the field of view of saying my right eye and take a radius of that, [00:14:34,880] then I'd put a streak at about a half, the radius, would be the language street. [00:14:41,880] Half or a little longer? [00:14:46,880] Is there any way that you can associate this language street to what you said? [00:14:55,880] Well, it depends on how big a circle I want to draw from my field of view. [00:15:02,880] Yeah, I saw streaks that long because with my eyes closed, [00:15:09,880] I imagine a rather big field of view here in my eye. [00:15:12,880] Yeah, I'd see streaks that long. [00:15:15,880] One time you said you saw streaks orient in a certain direction. [00:15:19,880] Do you remember that? [00:15:20,880] Yes. [00:15:21,880] The way you had it, bring it on up that way. [00:15:24,880] And what about you? [00:15:27,880] Well, I think I had them from several directions, [00:15:30,880] and I reported them as moving from one direction to the other at that time. [00:15:34,880] There were several others. [00:15:36,880] What helped any particular direction up and down, left and right? [00:15:42,880] I didn't notice any preferred orientation. [00:15:45,880] And here again, I think it tried to express the length of the arc of the flash [00:15:52,880] in terms of the peripheral field. [00:15:54,880] And if you're talking about a horizontal peripheral field as being somewhere in the vicinity of 150-160 degrees, [00:16:03,880] in some cases, the light flashes would go across as much as 50-60 degrees of that. [00:16:10,880] What's interesting? [00:16:11,880] Where the life flashes broken in the center? [00:16:14,880] In some cases, they were. [00:16:15,880] In some cases, I had the feeling it was two dots, one immediately following the other, [00:16:19,880] giving the impression of right to the left and top to bottom or bottom to top or left to right. [00:16:25,880] The point is you see that the retina is so curved that if you draw a straight line, [00:16:29,880] you can't get too long, you shouldn't be able to get too long a straight with that [00:16:33,880] breaking out of the retina again. [00:16:35,880] You'll find the retina goes straight like that. [00:16:37,880] But it has some depth, doesn't it? [00:16:39,880] It could have been any longer than that if it just is around the retina. [00:16:43,880] Can't hear that. [00:16:44,880] Through a couple of portions. [00:16:46,880] Can't hear you. [00:16:47,880] It should not have been any longer than what I showed you. [00:16:50,880] It could just went through the retina in one track, but it went through a couple of eyes. [00:16:55,880] It could have even had an impression along the street. [00:16:59,880] That's why we're interested in the character. [00:17:01,880] One more about the cloud that you saw. [00:17:03,880] This is a new phenomenon which we hadn't expected. [00:17:05,880] Did you describe this lightning behind the cloud? [00:17:10,880] I think it occurred, I reported it a couple of times, and it appeared, as I recall, [00:17:15,880] to be down low on one eye or the other, and it was just a diffuse lighting. [00:17:23,880] Any color? [00:17:25,880] White, silver. [00:17:26,880] If you were out in the country and looking at the horizon, [00:17:29,880] there was lightning behind a cloud, was it like that? [00:17:31,880] Except generally, if you do that, you can see a street behind the cloud. [00:17:35,880] There was no streak, it was just a diffuse lighting. [00:17:38,880] Similarly, I don't know what gives my little simulate. [00:17:42,880] That sort of boss thing when you get out of the car and make it look at it. [00:17:48,880] One last attempt to try to do the cloud here. [00:17:53,880] That was lights a minute. [00:17:55,880] Good job. [00:17:58,880] The car is still black. [00:18:01,880] Was there anything like that? [00:18:02,880] I didn't see it. [00:18:05,880] That's pretty dim cloud, right? [00:18:08,880] They have no dark adapt, but I still don't see it. [00:18:10,880] I've seen anything on it, Jeff. [00:18:15,880] But what you're trying to describe is just what we used to call heat lightning. [00:18:18,880] It's a kid. [00:18:19,880] That's a general diffuse light. [00:18:22,880] You didn't see the relief of the cloud, are you? [00:18:25,880] No, not necessarily. [00:18:28,880] Just a blob of light. [00:18:31,880] The final question, we didn't voice up to your question about whether you noticed any other sensations [00:18:42,880] besides flashes, which was the reason for asking that was the difference. [00:18:46,880] Did you feel a tingling, or find yourself twitching, or hear anything? [00:18:51,880] The reason for that is if it is an interaction back in the brain, [00:18:54,880] then your other senses are just about as sensitive as your visual sense, [00:18:58,880] and maybe you should feel something, but you never know this value. [00:19:01,880] Didn't notice any sensation. [00:19:04,880] There are two things to think about. [00:19:06,880] Did you notice your thumb etching or your lips twitching? [00:19:10,880] No. [00:19:13,880] Never looked for it either. [00:19:18,880] These are suggested questions, and the fact that you say no is significant. [00:19:24,880] You can press on with different parts of the anatomy. [00:19:27,880] You might get a yes, but you might get a yes. [00:19:31,880] Right. [00:19:33,880] You know if there's something significant about your thumbs or your lips, [00:19:37,880] or maybe you should warn people to look for that. [00:19:41,880] Because, I don't know, unless it's going to be so obvious that if you would... [00:19:47,880] Are you saying you'll offer it? [00:19:49,880] Well, sometimes you might think you should be. [00:19:52,880] I feel very comfortable. [00:19:54,880] Okay. [00:19:57,880] Thanks very much. [00:19:59,880] I think I said to me yesterday that you really did provide a normally improved metadata on this phone, [00:20:06,880] and then we've been in the previous one, so it's great. [00:20:09,880] Well, I would add this to that. [00:20:11,880] I think that's the way you really have to go is to take a definite trip, [00:20:15,880] set it aside and do it, because otherwise it's so random, [00:20:18,880] and so many other things going through your mind [00:20:21,880] that the only way you're getting quantitative about it. [00:20:25,880] However, you did a remarkable job of concentrating on something like the time. [00:20:31,880] Do you feel that that was being unreasonable to ask you to do that [00:20:35,880] if you've done the sleep or something like that? [00:20:37,880] It's a pretty boring thing to do. You're sitting there lying watching. [00:20:40,880] You think we should be in planning for doing this sort of thing on future missions, [00:20:46,880] that we shouldn't try and do much more than we try to get you to do, [00:20:51,880] because there's too much just to sit there lying. [00:20:54,880] They're trying to concentrate on it. [00:20:56,880] I think you can find a time period during the fight when they have... [00:20:59,880] when there isn't anything else to do. [00:21:02,880] I think it's a reasonable to suggest that. [00:21:04,880] I don't think I would do it before a sleep period or when they're tired [00:21:09,880] or they'll go to sleep while you're in there. [00:21:11,880] I think along that line, Phil, by the time you talk a little bit of brief life like we did, [00:21:17,880] and then you know the phenomena is there because your first sleep period [00:21:22,880] or the first time you get to spacecraft dark and close your eyes, [00:21:25,880] you're going to see flashes. [00:21:27,880] So then that sort of sparks your curiosity a little more, [00:21:31,880] and then when they say, "Let's settle down and count them while I think you're agreeable to it." [00:21:36,880] Hey, one other comment on that, and I'm not even sure that it's related, [00:21:47,880] but I really think that this is just a general impression [00:21:52,880] that if I would look at my... [00:21:54,880] look at, say, the glow of the wristwatch or something like that [00:21:58,880] and then close my eyes again, I'd almost always see a flash. [00:22:03,880] And I tried then to correlate looking at, say, a crack through the window shade [00:22:12,880] or looking at my watch or something and then closing my eyes. [00:22:16,880] And I really came to the impression that the two may have been correlated, [00:22:21,880] but I never really looked at it enough to say that for sure. [00:22:25,880] But I think there was a correlation between seeing a light of something like this [00:22:30,880] and enclosing your eyes and pretty soon you pick up that flash. [00:22:35,880] That's an important observation. [00:22:37,880] If the action is directly in the bipolar or the retina cells, the other segment, [00:22:41,880] you might expect it to behave the way electrical phosphines do, [00:22:45,880] rather than just from light, which takes dark in action. [00:22:48,880] What do you think about that in? [00:22:50,880] I'm not quite sure what your point is. [00:22:53,880] I was going to make the comment that, with respect to the flashes, [00:22:58,880] putting a flashlight in my eyes did not seem to destroy my dark adaptation. [00:23:04,880] Now, what that means, I don't know. [00:23:07,880] Did you do it like that? [00:23:08,880] Yep. [00:23:09,880] That's low and that fast. [00:23:11,880] Yep, for some time. [00:23:13,880] Well, you said you wiped out some of the nerves. [00:23:15,880] I wiped out something. [00:23:16,880] Why did you wipe it off? [00:23:17,880] I'm not sure that's true, Chuck. [00:23:19,880] How long did you do it? [00:23:20,880] You should wipe it off. [00:23:22,880] Oh, a couple of minutes. [00:23:24,880] A minute? [00:23:25,880] A minute? [00:23:26,880] Back and forth like this, about five seconds per drive. [00:23:29,880] Something like that. [00:23:30,880] Yeah, hey, you know that. [00:23:33,880] I mean, where you're seeing, though, is it the reason you think you didn't knock it all out [00:23:37,880] is because you could still see the flashes. [00:23:39,880] Is that what you're seeing? [00:23:40,880] Well, the cockpit looked different. [00:23:42,880] Remember, I was doing this eyes open. [00:23:45,880] Right. [00:23:46,880] And it seemed like, with just what I consider dark adaptation, that I was more dark adapted, [00:23:56,880] that I dark adapted much sooner after doing that than I did when we started the experiment. [00:24:02,880] Yeah, sure. [00:24:03,880] Yeah. [00:24:04,880] Sure. [00:24:05,880] Yeah, that you would. [00:24:06,880] We should wipe out the cums less for that. [00:24:08,880] Just with the flexibility to do with the tungsten light or whoever's in the mouth. [00:24:11,880] Hey, I'd like to make sure that on this dark adaptation, I know during the, during the formal [00:24:15,880] hour or 40 minutes, whatever it was, that Ed was, was shining the light. [00:24:20,880] But I don't know whether you picked it up on the air to ground or not. [00:24:23,880] But I had done that prior to that during one of the sleep periods. [00:24:26,880] And there's, there's just, you do not have to be dark adapted to see these. [00:24:30,880] Yeah, I think that's a completely good problem with Ed. [00:24:32,880] That's a very significant data point because it almost certainly proves that it's not, not a real light in your eye. [00:24:37,880] You know, in your eye, it takes a minute to interact with yourself. [00:24:40,880] Yeah, but why did it take us along when we started the experiment? [00:24:43,880] Before we saw anything, it was quite a while. [00:24:45,880] And yet when I wiped the light across my eyes within 30, 40 seconds, there they were again. [00:24:50,880] The 17 minutes. [00:24:51,880] Yeah, but when I did it with the flashlight within 30, 40 seconds, they were right there again. [00:24:59,880] You, you said that they were fainter. [00:25:01,880] They seemed fainter than they had on previous, previous, previous times that you deserved them. [00:25:06,880] But there definitely is a threshold effect from some sort because you saw twice as many during that period as the other two did. [00:25:12,880] And I think maybe it's just, my guess was when you didn't see them and then you started to see them regularly, [00:25:20,880] was that it was just that they seemed fainter than your expected. [00:25:25,880] And so it took you a while to sort of get your attention now to fainter ones than what you're looking for. [00:25:31,880] Well, that may be the case except they did indeed the peer fainter in the beginning. [00:25:37,880] And it wasn't a matter of looking for fainter objects, they were brighter after a while. [00:25:44,880] And they didn't diminish the brightness when I did the flashlight across my eyes. [00:25:50,880] They were still just as bright 30 seconds later as they had it in before I used the flashlight. [00:25:55,880] And that's why I'm questioning the dark adaptation bit. [00:25:58,880] Either I didn't wipe the dark adaptation out or there is something related to dark adaptation that influences the phenomenon. [00:26:06,880] I don't understand it, it did make sense. [00:26:14,880] I think there are gone time period that we did it and the few flashes we saw was very surprising to me. [00:26:20,880] And we talked about this and we commented on it at the time. [00:26:24,880] Boy, it seemed like you'd wake up during a sleep period and... [00:26:29,880] They were all over the place. [00:26:30,880] Now, here again, maybe I'd lose track of time. [00:26:33,880] Maybe you're laying there in the dark cabin and maybe it was longer than what I thought. [00:26:36,880] But it just seemed like there's abundance of flashes. [00:26:41,880] And I was amazed when it took 17 minutes to see a flash. [00:26:44,880] I thought any time that you wanted to close your eyes and concentrate on it, you were going to see these things. [00:26:51,880] And I suggest that you really understand that it's a time period aside because it is a random function for us, I'm concerned, to try to do it in a non-quantitative basis itself. [00:27:03,880] Plus the fact that I think that each individual is going to report different levels of activity too. [00:27:11,880] I had to feel there was maybe some little fake things that I would sort of say that I didn't want to talk about because I couldn't define them as a function. [00:27:18,880] But I had those too. [00:27:21,880] I think also it's a good idea to do it this way because your subjective impression is not necessarily right. [00:27:26,880] Like you felt that you saw a moment and left out on your right and that wasn't true. [00:27:30,880] Those were all perfect. [00:27:32,880] We need to get the data real common. [00:27:34,880] When you go to sleep at night, do you see any of these things? [00:27:37,880] Most people do see something as they're going to sleep in a dark room. [00:27:41,880] They can't sleep right away, down here. [00:27:46,880] Thank you. [00:27:49,880] You've got lights blinking around on your eyes if you're getting a real dark room occasionally. [00:27:56,880] Maybe because we've never really concentrated on looking for this particular type of phenomenon. [00:28:03,880] These phenomenon that you saw were different from the ones that you see once in a while. [00:28:10,880] Sorry, a lot more frequent than the question. [00:28:13,880] I didn't write this. [00:28:18,880] I guess I'll make a note to see if I see any of those from here on. [00:28:26,880] But I certainly haven't since we've been back. [00:28:31,880] But here again, and Ed mentioned this, and I agree with him, but it's another subjective thing, [00:28:36,880] that the flashes you see when you wake up in the middle of the night as a whole appear to be brighter [00:28:42,880] than the flashes as a whole during that experiment that we did during the day. [00:28:49,880] And I'm like Al, I was a little reluctant to call anything except a very positive flash during that timeframe. [00:28:59,880] I want to make really sure that that was indeed a market at the time that I called it. [00:29:05,880] But those that you saw during the middle of the night appear to be brighter, [00:29:10,880] and I can say appear to be more of them, but here again, you know, you may lay there for an hour [00:29:14,880] and you think it's five, ten minutes or something, I don't know. [00:29:18,880] Maybe you lose track of the time, but it's a subjective thing. [00:29:23,880] Ed saw one blue flash, did anyone else see color? [00:29:26,880] No, wait a minute, that wasn't blue. It was a silver, a blue white, sort of like a blue diamond. [00:29:34,880] It was like a blue diamond. [00:29:35,880] Was that the brightest that you saw? [00:29:37,880] I don't recall it, it was the brightest note. [00:29:40,880] Has anybody been hitting the head and seeing stars? [00:29:44,880] Yeah, yeah. [00:29:45,880] Would these anything like that? [00:29:47,880] Yeah, I think I'm more concentrated on the pain. [00:29:51,880] [laughter] [00:29:54,880] When you go to bed tonight, if you're in the dark room, if you just knock on your eyeballs, [00:30:00,880] you should see flashes in the muck away, try that and see what they look like the same total. [00:30:10,880] Yeah, we cry a lot in here. [00:30:12,880] [laughter] [00:30:14,880] Okay. [00:30:15,880] No, I'll say, you know, if you can get the next cruise interested, Phil, you know, it makes a great topic of conversation, [00:30:17,880] and, you know, during the flagging, you've got nothing else to talk about, you can talk about like flashes. [00:30:22,880] So, you know, I think if you get the cruise, curiosity around, it's a good deal. [00:30:28,880] Well, I think the pressure which is on the subject, which is built out of such a movie, [00:30:33,880] some formal experiment on this thing, is probably the way to go. [00:30:37,880] Okay. [00:30:39,880] Thanks very much. [00:30:41,880] Thank you. [00:30:42,880] Thank you. [00:30:43,880] We're okay. [00:30:44,880] We'll keep back in time for you, and let you know what we're going to do with this other thing [00:30:48,880] and what we're going to do, and how things are coming time-wise for the end of the next two. [00:30:53,880] So, watch out. [00:30:58,880] You know what the date is, you know what the time is now, 0731 on Saturday. [00:31:03,880] Oh. [00:31:04,880] You're at least timing. [00:31:05,880] Yeah. [00:31:06,880] Work on springing a certain check. [00:31:08,880] Somebody said that 21 days ended up on Saturday morning, yeah. [00:31:12,880] [laughter] [00:31:15,880] I would have been led to believe otherwise, Chuck. [00:31:18,880] [laughter] [00:31:20,880] Indeed, briefing plan is to 0,800 to 26th on Friday. [00:31:23,880] Jake says we get out Friday morning. [00:31:26,880] Yeah. [00:31:27,880] He called yesterday. [00:31:28,880] [laughter] [00:31:30,880] And he called me, and I thought he says, "How did we ever get this number in here?" [00:31:33,880] I said, "I don't know what you guys said." [00:31:35,880] Well, the radiation people are here. [00:31:37,880] We're talking about release and all that kind of business. [00:31:39,880] Can we get a half on when they're going to get total body counts? [00:31:50,880] [silence]
NASA-UAP-D028, Apollo 17 Crew Medical Debriefing, 1972
Segment 1 of 2 of the Apollo 17 post-mission crew medical debriefing at the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston, where astronauts discuss the cosmic-ray 'light flash phenomena' they perceived during the mission.
[00:00:00,000] We're picking up a 12-door show, left off, right in the middle of the dock, and again [00:00:07,500] we're going to, where things went nominal as per the checklist, we're going to get the [00:00:14,100] lunar surface checklist checked. [00:00:16,020] Okay, we're going to say so. [00:00:18,260] Tomorrow, in launch prep, went well, we did not do the P22 and everything else just went [00:00:37,200] as advertised on the limb, she came up and powered up beautifully. [00:00:42,400] Okay, the lift off was, again, went normal, we got all, obviously all our pyros, and we [00:00:59,920] lost no change over Parker valves or anything. [00:01:04,280] The only thing that I would like to mention, let the people get up here is that very soon [00:01:10,960] after lift off, we had apparent loss of calm, a lot of noise in the SPN. [00:01:18,280] It turned out that we were downlucky, but there was something wrong with the uplink. [00:01:26,400] So the CDR watched the, most of the guidance, and we'd call out in the blind, altudes and [00:01:35,480] goals, and what have you, as we pitched over and pressed on up, but for about the first [00:01:40,440] two or three minutes, I think the lunar module pilot had to concern itself for trying to [00:01:44,720] get combat. [00:01:45,720] Yeah, I mean, again, it was when I was apparently, I got it, my goalstone, dropped the uplink, [00:01:54,200] and when they were getting it back, I was switching on these, and for a while there [00:01:57,880] was just completely out of phase, and what they were, kind of, had a continuous dynamic. [00:02:06,080] It was a very inopportune time, I might say, because it happened just right after ignition. [00:02:11,280] I think that's something that the encodes are going to be able to clarify, because we [00:02:18,120] certainly can't give you the details, it was essentially no calm in all the antennas. [00:02:23,680] We got into a, they briefed us on a trajectory, we flew into a trajectory that appeared to [00:02:32,040] be nominal. [00:02:33,040] The AG showed us slight out of plane, I believe, and as a result, our tweak had a nine foot [00:02:38,920] per second. [00:02:39,920] It was minus four, minus nine, and plus one, we burned out X, Z, Y, net order, and it looked [00:02:46,360] like the AGs out of plane. [00:02:47,960] In the case it was good, about seven feet per second, it looked like we might have had [00:02:54,520] a somewhat AG sensitive drift in our Y accelerometer and the pings, but the tweak as it turned [00:03:03,800] out was an excellent tweak, because our rendezvous resulted in just as nominal rendezvous and [00:03:13,640] a nominal trajectory and profile, as I guess I've ever been involved with. [00:03:17,720] The drift in an accelerometer did not bother us anywhere else in the tracking, or in the [00:03:26,520] in a rendezvous at all, rendezvous navigation was followed the checklist. [00:03:34,960] We got a radar performed very well, we had auto updates into the AGs. [00:03:42,360] The only thing I might mention here is when it came to making a TPI burn. [00:03:53,560] The residuals in the TPI burn were greater than what I had expected them, and we did [00:03:59,760] not record them because I wanted to get them, I wanted to get them nulled out just as soon [00:04:06,600] as possible, and I don't know the tense, but they were minus seven in X, and they were [00:04:13,960] four in four, and I'm not sure whether they were plus or minus in Y and C, but they were [00:04:19,080] the point I'm making is they were larger than I had expected, they were minus seven in four [00:04:25,120] point something, and four point something. [00:04:27,680] We reduced those to less than two tenths of a foot per second, and from there on continued [00:04:34,920] a plot right through the mid courses, right up the pike on a nominal trajectory. [00:04:45,360] Communications after that first, Lychef, you got any comment about that? [00:04:49,560] The comment was good, a couple comments about the AGs, after about five or ten minutes, or [00:04:56,560] early in insertion, I always check the accelerometers on the after insertion, and they look really [00:05:03,560] good, and I checked about five or ten minutes later, and I can't remember exactly, I looked [00:05:08,160] and I had accumulated a foot or two foot, maybe a foot and a half per second in X, so [00:05:13,960] Gene went free and I did a gyrocal, and after that there was no significant accumulation [00:05:19,720] in X, I went very well, I did that when I talked to the ground, but I thought I had an understanding [00:05:27,480] that that was something that we could do, you know. [00:05:34,480] Okay, the, let me just also mention on the TPI solutions, the AGs had essentially, within [00:05:38,560] a two or three feet per second, a good TPI solution after six marks. [00:05:43,520] The insertion solution was not very good. [00:05:49,760] It was off by a number of feet per second in X, and even more in Z. [00:05:56,480] This was your first 2017 marks, this was your first 2017 marks, you know, the PING's [00:06:06,680] recycle and PING's final were very gross, but a couple feet per second in X, and a PING's [00:06:14,280] recycle had, I don't remember exactly the cost for 15 marks in the kind, so I had seven [00:06:19,920] to seven, and there's more data in the data card books about various AGs, certain times [00:06:28,360] of marks with the AG solutions. [00:06:31,160] Okay, the mid-course solutions, first mid-course I agreed effectively all systems except AGs [00:06:42,560] out of plane was a little bit high, and the decision was made to burn the I-board PING [00:06:48,960] solution out of the little M, which was minus 1.2 plus 0.4 and plus 0.3. [00:06:55,360] We continued to track right up the pike, mid-course two came up, and we again compared [00:07:03,280] all the solutions. [00:07:05,360] The AGs out of plane was still a little bit high, and actually the opposite direction [00:07:12,640] from the PING's, we had a slight variation in the CSM solution in Z, I don't know why, [00:07:22,560] came up with plus 5.4 feet per second in Z, so we really didn't get a very good correlation [00:07:29,080] between the CSM and the LEM on the second mid-course, but the PING's was still performing [00:07:37,360] and the radar was still performing, and based upon our trajectory plot, and based upon our [00:07:44,800] following the nominal inertial line of sight rates, we decided to burn the PING's on-board [00:07:52,440] PING solution in the LEM, and it was minus 0.4, minus 0.7 and minus 1.6, and from there [00:07:59,720] on out, we just continued to follow the inertial line of sight angles and very little tweaking [00:08:09,880] in either in Y or Z, and we just sort of floated right through the braking gates at one mile, [00:08:19,880] I think we took about six or seven feet per second off to hit 30. [00:08:25,240] We met all the gates as prescribed, and just came, moving very slowly into the final station [00:08:36,320] keeping, went into a formation flight around the CSM, got a good inspection of the spacecraft [00:08:45,600] and the SIM bay, the report of which is in the transcript, everything looked good to us. [00:08:52,000] We eventually went over to the command module to the docking attitude that LEM just took [00:08:58,520] his position, his docking attitude, did his pitch and yomit over, and gave the station [00:09:06,440] keeping control to the command module to pitch and yomit over and stood by for docking. [00:09:13,280] Okay, as the member was about proceeding on with the docking, I think one of the more [00:09:20,280] noticeable differences between this docking and the docking with the S-4B is the fact [00:09:27,520] that the SM stage did dance a lot more than the S-4B did, S-4B studies a rock, but you [00:09:36,600] could tell the, just watch the LEM did that because it would change attitude and you'd [00:09:43,600] try to follow it, and looking on the first attempt coming in, I must have had less than [00:09:49,080] a tenth of a foot per second, just barely closing on it, I just taken it nice and easy. [00:09:53,920] I made contact and did not get captured, okay, as soon as it didn't get captured, it's obviously [00:10:03,360] you're closing too slow, I backed off a couple of three feet, I guess, something like that, [00:10:10,080] re-know all the rates and initiated the closing rate and made, got captured, as soon as we [00:10:17,680] went to capture both vehicles, went to the CMC free, and you look around and check the [00:10:24,000] barber poles and whatever, look back out, and here I had some rates in the CSM and I'm [00:10:31,480] sure now that the LEM had rates also, you must have had them, but we did one, as soon as [00:10:38,000] we went free, so it's just captured the LEM went free, and the CSM, trying to know all [00:10:44,360] the rates, ended up perturbating the LEM and giving us rates. [00:10:48,840] So we finally gave up on that mode, had the LEM go to attitude hold, and then once you [00:10:57,720] go to attitude hold, then the CSM got all the rates, and we got lined up, and attempted [00:11:04,440] the hard docking, no problem, broke retract, came back, this time it didn't sound like [00:11:11,120] it was as much of a river fire, it was more of a, and it was a quicker docking, and I [00:11:20,160] put that hard dock than it was the previous time, again we're taking, okay, I want to [00:11:28,600] say something about visual sightings, during the round of the, I was able to, from the LEM, [00:11:35,560] I was able to see the command module in, when it was sunlit, that somewhere around a hundred [00:11:43,360] miles, and definitely defined that that was a command module, after the command module [00:11:51,760] wanted a darkness, I could not pick up his tracking light, until we were well within about [00:11:58,840] 40 miles, I think this transcript got more an accurate time, but could not pick up the [00:12:06,200] docking light, the round of the light, rather than the command module, we were well within [00:12:11,560] 40 miles, and then just a very, initially very dim, faint flash. [00:12:19,920] I was able to verify on board that the LEM tracking light was working, and I finally [00:12:24,800] figured out how it was reflecting off the underside of the EVA handrail on the left [00:12:31,160] forward side of the LEM, so I could see the LEM tracking light flashing, and also whenever [00:12:42,040] there were some particles we took with us that stayed with the spacecraft, and you could [00:12:47,240] see the sequential flash off of those particles, there was a result of our LEM tracking light. [00:12:56,640] Okay, this is the command module pilot, I've already mentioned in section 11.0, about [00:13:04,120] the visibility of the module through the optic. [00:13:10,240] I've got down here, this is, anything else to add about the round? [00:13:17,240] >> It's entirely in television, if it's entirely in the LEM, we'll just have to look and see [00:13:20,080] how it turned out, I took a lot of footage, in fact, as we put it on, not only the Async [00:13:25,200] Mag, we put it on the Another Mag, we had part of the Mag, so, and it includes the Cymbae [00:13:32,760] right or wrong, we did have the Hasselblad on board, so we had a lot of Hasselblad photography [00:13:37,920] and the rendezvous and some of the surface stuff in the process. [00:13:43,920] >> Okay, post docking check, we're going to 13.0 lunar module jettison through TEI, post [00:13:51,640] docking check and pressurization. [00:13:53,440] Well, first of all, I guess you said you had every last made this time, right? [00:13:58,560] >> Every last work done, overall docking latches worked. [00:14:01,480] >> Okay, that's something to do with the mass and the other vehicle involved. [00:14:07,880] The general comment I want to make about the post docking operations is that throughout [00:14:16,680] the round of both pilots in LEM kept their helmets on for dust, keep the dust off primarily, [00:14:26,120] the commander took off his gloves, almost immediately after insertion, and flew the entire round [00:14:30,760] of it that way, he took yours off sometime later. [00:14:33,840] >> I kept mine on after we've done a lot of transfer, I can't remember, I kept your gloves [00:14:40,360] on to it. [00:14:41,360] >> Okay, after insertion, I did most of my pre insertion work with the gloves off because [00:14:47,720] I didn't want to take the time, I want to get that initial act solution, and I could [00:14:51,880] get that fairly rapidly with the gloves, and I didn't take the gloves off until maybe 10 [00:14:57,400] or 15 minutes after insertion, but I kept the helmet on all the way through most of the [00:15:02,360] time, just to avoid reading the dust, and I've had the irritation on the surface. [00:15:07,360] >> And the commander kept the helmet on throughout the round of both, and docking, I took my [00:15:15,840] gloves off after insertion and left them off. [00:15:19,360] Now, when we started, when we started getting prepared, as soon as we were a hard dock, [00:15:26,080] the commander took off his helmet, and as I look back at that, because of the dust debris [00:15:34,120] in the lamp spacecraft, I'm sorry I did it. [00:15:38,960] I could have left the helmet on, and I would have had a lot less trouble, but it was just [00:15:46,200] I in my type of irritation, and you knew you were in a very heavily infiltrated atmosphere [00:15:53,680] in the lamp, because of the lunar dust, although I don't know how much lunar dust previous [00:15:59,120] flights had, but I think we saved a great deal of grief by taping up, by sweeping all [00:16:05,320] the dust we could find on the floor, into the holes, and putting our tape covers over [00:16:08,880] those holes, I think that had to help a great deal, because there was an awful lot of dust [00:16:12,400] on the floor that we didn't see. [00:16:18,760] So I had the commander had his helmet and gloves off throughout the entire transfer. [00:16:24,640] Basically the way we handle a transfer was the way we had planned, I think the lamp pilot [00:16:31,000] did most of the preparation of the gear in the lamp, and the commander stayed in the tunnel [00:16:38,780] and passed things on, and the inventory was going on on the command module side, and on [00:16:46,120] the lamp side both. [00:16:48,040] We backened each other's suits the best we could, and everything else that got supposedly [00:16:52,680] transferred un-bagged or un-covered. [00:16:54,920] This is the young thing, and despite of the seeing of these comments to the contrary, [00:16:59,680] I think we got things remarkably clean, and there wasn't an awful lot of dirt in the [00:17:04,480] landmark that was coming back. [00:17:06,260] Really was it? [00:17:07,260] Oh, that's true. [00:17:08,260] I didn't want to say that. [00:17:09,260] The contrast he made, I thought it was dirty, but I was surprised we were able to keep the [00:17:16,360] level of part of the expression "contamination of command module" down, as well as that. [00:17:21,740] That atmosphere that the commander was referring to in a lamp after he took his helmet off, [00:17:26,720] I could go halfway through the tunnel and stick my head up into the command module, and it [00:17:31,300] was totally refreshed, un-proluded atmosphere up there, and it never did get polluted. [00:17:37,960] I think having a vacuum cleaner running in the lamp had a lot to do with keeping the [00:17:41,760] flow in the light. [00:17:47,600] We never did vacuum in the command module, because this wasn't necessary vacuum in the [00:17:52,600] command module. [00:17:53,600] The suits were noticeably cleaned by the vacuum cleaner. [00:17:58,200] You could tell you were pulling stuff off of them, although they were still dirty, and [00:18:01,220] every other stuff from the time we handled them we got our hands dirty, but I think most [00:18:06,040] of the free dust was taken care of. [00:18:09,480] We effectively stayed on a transfer list, I say effectively, throughout the transfer, [00:18:15,760] however, some things got transferred out of order and got temporarily stowed in the command [00:18:23,240] module, but we effectively used the transfer list as a, not as a cookbook, follow recipe [00:18:30,760] type of thing, but as an inventory list, and we inventory it several times from both ends [00:18:36,080] and found out that we were satisfied we had everything transferred, and then pressed [00:18:41,400] out with the lamp closed out. [00:18:47,560] The lamp closed out went nominal. [00:18:49,480] We got back into the command module, and the commander closed out the lamp, and for convenience [00:19:02,560] the commander effectively went back and closed out the lamp hatch, put in the command module [00:19:09,320] hatch. [00:19:11,560] Because of the slow tunnel vent, or the long duration of tunnel vent, the commander stayed [00:19:19,440] in the tunnel in the LFP in his seat, in the CMP in the left seat. [00:19:24,520] We suited up and got prepared for our, for our integrity check, as soon as the, as soon [00:19:30,320] as the long tunnel vent was complete, and we were satisfied with integrity of the hatch [00:19:35,000] we went into the, to the, to the suit integrity checks. [00:19:39,080] You know, this is CMP, let me make another comment on a tunnel vent time, I bet it must [00:19:44,080] take, and I'm not sure if this is correct, but I bet at least three or four times longer [00:19:52,080] than the simulator is for the tunnel vent move. [00:19:55,640] And I think that's going to be applicable to Skyland, because they're talking, they're [00:20:00,400] going to have to vent before the end of the day, it took quite a while. [00:20:06,280] But tunnel pause I was easy, we had no, no, a drill, no bro, which were stored in the [00:20:13,420] limb for, limb jet, going through the rest of these mind triggers under the amount of [00:20:26,160] jealousy and through TEI, we just followed the checklist and it all seemed to happen [00:20:30,360] just as advertised. [00:20:31,360] Well, we got a little bit intrigued with the, the limb jet isn't, you know, at this time [00:20:37,920] it was, it was great, it just sailed out there nice and pretty, and we got a lot of good [00:20:41,680] pictures where we should have been maneuvering, and we ended up getting into P-41 after the, [00:20:48,520] for the self burn, a little bit of light, but that's no problem either, because we just [00:20:53,900] trying to reserve those, and people would have wanted and got a good self burn. [00:20:58,920] I want to make a comment that I think cleaning control in a command module was excellent, [00:21:09,720] clearing all the dust and all the dirt, that just seemed to hear everything in a limb. [00:21:16,240] When we got back in a command, command module with the exception of the suits, and with the [00:21:21,400] exception of the LMP and the CDR, everything was clean, and that's for the most part is [00:21:31,680] because everything was bad before we brought it over, bag and zipped, and we never did [00:21:36,400] open anything once we got it zipped up, so the command module stayed, and I think that [00:21:42,420] suit fan filter is probably going to be very, very clean state, exceptionally clean throughout [00:21:47,960] the remainder of the flight. [00:21:49,680] Let me add a bagging, and a decontamination bag, so I made a special effort as per request [00:21:58,000] to pull those zippers as tight as I could, and they should be pretty tight soon. [00:22:07,920] Okay, orbital navigation, high gain, why don't you just pick that up? [00:22:12,840] Okay, I'm already from except the TEI, I have no comments. [00:22:19,520] High gain and always were good, Omni's and S-band were good. [00:22:24,360] We had a lot of time when as advertised, we have a lot of targets of opportunity. [00:22:32,960] Assembly operations have been mentioned before. [00:22:35,520] Let me just make one gross comment about the way we handled it as a three-man crew with [00:22:40,520] assembly operations which after, did we, yeah, okay, it's covered, I think I did say so. [00:22:58,360] Okay, the TEI updates, now, section of Star Trek, we're good for TEI. [00:23:08,040] I got the commander's master arm and every one of them all through the flight, which [00:23:10,920] made me feel very good, but you kept trying again. [00:23:13,300] I made sure I got it, I made sure I got it, I was the last few, I was going to change [00:23:18,560] any mode of operation. [00:23:21,320] I'll tell you that last one, where our entry was the last one, but I made sure I got it [00:23:31,600] on the TEI. [00:23:32,600] Just make you guys feel at home, I figured you'd think I didn't do it right if I didn't [00:23:36,960] get the master arm. [00:23:39,960] The TEI, a half G or whatever we were pulling there, was, seemed like more than that. [00:23:47,280] Quite noticed, you know. [00:23:48,280] Sure did, it seemed like it was really pushing you back into the seat. [00:23:51,240] Yeah. [00:23:52,240] Around my growth, I think, started out holding our heads up and eventually relaxed them [00:23:56,440] back on the couch. [00:23:59,000] I guess we must have had the spacecraft pretty well stowed or tied down because as I brief [00:24:07,760] the CFP and LNP and as I recall those kind of burns back at Apollo 10, lots of things [00:24:16,200] started moving through the spacecraft and find their due on the end of the spacecraft [00:24:26,320] because of the G load and much to my surprise, all we had was initial thought as we moved [00:24:32,640] away from the station and we didn't have any gear coming from anywhere flying through [00:24:36,140] the spacecraft. [00:24:37,140] So we must have cleaned it up pretty well. [00:24:38,680] I got a, I got a white tag, wet white, a white tag wet white. [00:24:46,040] But other than maybe one or two of those things, and looking back, I would have expected more [00:24:52,240] gear to come from somewhere, but we prepared for those burns pretty well. [00:24:57,680] Well, that reminds, brings up another point that reminds me though, is always water condensing [00:25:05,120] on ECU, you know, the pipes and whatever you're back in there when you get back to clean the [00:25:09,280] suits of the return belt. [00:25:11,800] And when we put our suits on for the UVA the next day, your suits were noticeably wet. [00:25:19,760] And also, when I pulled the PGA bag up, it was damp down underneath the PGA bag. [00:25:27,160] So I think as a normal procedure, we should have, either after the burn, probably before [00:25:36,200] the burn, make sure that we wipe out the water and the LAB somehow would be there. [00:25:40,560] I wasn't really aware of our suits, for example, put them out, but I was not aware. [00:25:44,000] I could look down here, and I could not find any real water down in the, down there. [00:25:50,080] It's just done. [00:25:51,080] On ECS. [00:25:52,080] Yeah, on ECS, there's always water down there in ECS. [00:25:54,000] I just assume that's where all I came from, but it's not a flow of water, like you said, [00:25:59,720] it just dammit. [00:26:00,720] But almost as if it was over down in the LAB, and water was convincing on all over the suit, [00:26:05,560] it wasn't as if they were in a pump. [00:26:08,360] Yeah. [00:26:09,360] Okay, I think that covers right on through to you. [00:26:12,840] Let's see. [00:26:13,840] Yeah, the one thing I want to mention on TEI is that, again, the simulator is set up such [00:26:19,840] a roll dead band that goes over to one side of the roll dead band and just kind of stays [00:26:24,360] there. [00:26:25,360] And during the TEI burn, it was bouncing back and forth from one side of the dead band to [00:26:32,080] the other side of the dead band, and when it's bouncing back and forth, the roll rate is up [00:26:38,840] around all 4/10 of a degree per second, arching back and forth across the roll dead band. [00:26:51,000] Okay, 14.0 transverse coast and the thing that I just realized we've neglected is anywhere [00:26:59,160] about systems, like I mentioned chlorination at this point in time. [00:27:03,920] I think without fail, do you ever talk about that? [00:27:07,120] No. [00:27:08,120] When fail, almost every chlorination leaked. [00:27:17,680] Sometimes larger quantities of water, other times just small quantities of water. [00:27:21,600] And I'll tell you where it leaked. [00:27:23,080] Water are pouring. [00:27:24,080] Well, it's pouring in your chlorinating and in buffer or water when you withdrew the buffer [00:27:31,400] sample here. [00:27:32,560] But where it leaked was, it appeared to me to leak within the ampoule itself around [00:27:38,200] the bag because it was the cylindrical chlorine dispenser that was continually wet. [00:27:48,080] It was not where the dispenser fit into the needle or where the needle adapter fit into [00:27:56,800] the spacecraft. [00:27:57,800] It was within the barrel chlorine dispenser itself. [00:28:02,760] We continually, chlorination was a case of always cleaning your hands with chlorine because [00:28:10,720] you always had it available down there with the net dispenser and in some cases you had [00:28:15,280] larger quantities of water that had to be wiped up with a tissue. [00:28:21,040] That plagued us throughout the whole mission. [00:28:24,600] It turned out not to be a serious problem because we learned how to handle it, but that [00:28:29,040] was one system anomaly that never had really been brought up. [00:28:33,120] Okay, let's see, CMP, let me amplify that a little bit. [00:28:41,040] In two cases, almost positive that when you put the thing on and the bandhead fitting and [00:28:49,360] cranking it on there, it did not puncture the ampoule itself. [00:28:53,520] The reason that I can believe that's correct is that when you start to crank the outside [00:29:02,440] of the cassette down to push the chlorine into the water system, it was very hard to [00:29:11,200] turn. [00:29:12,200] If you tried to force it, you could force it on down there and I'm sure that's a good [00:29:19,900] way to break an ampoule on the thing and if you take it, just in two cases, took the [00:29:26,960] bandhead fitting loose again and put it back on there and in both cases, then you just [00:29:33,640] try to squeeze the chlorine out of the ampoule into the system and it would turn easier, [00:29:39,760] but it's still hard to pull it out to crank that thing down. [00:29:46,480] But we did not. [00:29:48,480] We got the chlorination done. [00:29:49,800] We didn't miss any injections of chlorine and we didn't miss any of the buffer samples. [00:29:59,480] So I guess we got the job done, it was just a little bit messy. [00:30:03,400] And chlorine was evident in because the CDR eventually peeled all the outer skin off his [00:30:08,640] right hand and I'm convinced it was due to the chlorine and it had nothing to do with [00:30:13,040] the EVA. [00:30:14,040] Oh, you lost a little flash, a little skin on the EVA. [00:30:23,240] Transurist Coals, systems navigation, let's press on and see what we can say about that. [00:30:30,280] Okay, let me see how much transurist coals we're going to do. [00:30:35,400] Yeah, let's go through up to the CSM EVA anyway. [00:30:38,920] Okay, Transurist Coals, the first thing I want to mention is passive thermal control [00:30:43,420] was at what I would call unusual attitudes because of the UV and IR requirements. [00:30:50,040] Now these unusual attitudes did two things they put us, they required us to re-maneuver [00:30:57,040] the spacecraft several times and exit, enter and exit PTC several, several times, which [00:31:03,160] in itself was not a problem, it was just an additional coordination. [00:31:07,960] Coincidentally, most of these particular PTC attitudes were within 30, certainly 45 degrees [00:31:17,200] of gimbalock most of the time. [00:31:19,080] So we were looking at the red apple, good portion of the trip home. [00:31:24,120] But they also, some of those attitudes where you actually were not, we were in attitudes [00:31:28,880] and/or PTC at these relatively unusual positions, change the equilibrium heat load on the spacecraft. [00:31:40,080] You could see it in RCS quad temperatures where I think you could see it in helium packaged [00:31:46,480] temperatures, and most notably you could see it on the change in condensation from the [00:31:53,200] tunnel hatch to the forward hatch, the tunnel hatch eventually from most of the way home [00:31:57,320] ended up to be very dry. [00:32:00,960] And about the second day out on the way home, the four, the center hatch, got soaking wet [00:32:14,400] to the point that Ava took a dry rag and wiped off some of the latch components and [00:32:20,560] some of the gearbox components, externally, not that it did any good, but there was just [00:32:25,440] that much water on it, and I think this is all due to the PTC attitudes required for [00:32:30,800] the Simba experiments on the way home. [00:32:33,680] Oh, it's colder in the spacecraft, too. [00:32:37,400] Oh, yes, it was colder in the spacecraft. [00:32:40,000] Not as cold as the commander thought it was, but it was cooler. [00:32:44,800] Cold enough to warm up. [00:32:45,800] On the commander's orders. [00:32:50,800] And I just mentioned we warmed it up with the ground suggestion of an extra inverter and [00:33:00,760] going to manual on the 10th end, I think we discussed that. [00:33:04,400] Ron, all your rough map changes, your talking and platform talking, all those went very [00:33:15,960] well, I thought. [00:33:16,960] That went great. [00:33:17,960] All the way back home, it was just changing attitudes, changing attitudes, changing attitudes [00:33:27,760] with the exception of the EVA day, which we'll cover here shortly. [00:33:36,040] Yes, I'm EVA. [00:33:40,480] Okay, on EVA prep. [00:33:44,120] And I think the only and only we came across as the CMPs, well, I'll see you on EVA prep, [00:33:52,880] but I really didn't have any, because we didn't know anything at that point. [00:33:56,360] I was going to say on the CMPs comp there, but the EVA prep went right down the line, [00:34:06,160] essentially it was all well laid out within the experiments checklist, and we checked things [00:34:12,400] off as we were, and stayed pretty much on the timeline. [00:34:16,000] We started about a half hour away, and we stayed a half hour away. [00:34:20,320] We started, we were half hour early throughout the whole thing, and we lost that half hour [00:34:27,200] and opened the heads just about, and it turned to you man, exactly on time, and I can't remember [00:34:31,040] a small little stuff that I'm chasing down. [00:34:34,360] Comp carrier change. [00:34:35,360] We lost that half hour during a comp carrier change on its own. [00:34:41,160] And Ron, I'd like to add that post EVA, that I think one thing that helped us immensely [00:34:54,400] on what ended up to be, I think a very fine entry storage was that we sort of backed off [00:35:02,440] after the EVA, and took a good long, was the long range storage as well as the post EVA [00:35:12,280] storage, and really effectively started housekeeping, cleaning up the cabin, and effectively stowing [00:35:17,600] some of the articles that were not going to be used any further in the mission for entry. [00:35:24,120] At that time, entry storage really started with the post EVA time frame period, and I [00:35:31,120] think that really helped us out in the long run. [00:35:34,880] Okay, I think we should mention how we got out of the suit, and I think to me that was [00:35:39,960] a pretty important way to get things done. [00:35:47,600] The only change, the only change to the prep and/or post was the order in which we doft [00:35:55,120] and donsus, because it was very evident that there were certain convenient ways, because [00:36:00,480] of the way the suit suits were stowed, and the way people fit into the checklist that [00:36:06,560] we, when we donsuits, the commander got down, you got in first, and I did, and then the [00:36:14,560] LMP, and the NSCMP got down last, and it worked out very fine, it worked, plus the CMP had [00:36:19,760] less work to do in his suit, which also aided him in the long run, when we doft, the LMP, [00:36:28,320] because that was first, then you done the CDR, and then the CMP, and that wasn't exactly [00:36:36,200] what it was called for, but that's the way it worked out the best. [00:36:38,800] And we stowed our suits, and he'll shape back prior to putting the center couch back in, [00:36:47,720] which was another good decision, I believe, in helping us get the suit stowed back, and [00:36:54,320] I'll shape that. [00:36:59,080] Okay, let's go down to the cabin depress, no problems, the normal depress hatch opening, [00:37:14,080] even though the hatch was completely, or the cabin was completely depressed, and we're [00:37:18,640] in zero pressure on a thing, as soon as I opened the hatch, there was enough residual pressure [00:37:24,880] or something inside the spacecraft that it actually tended to pull the hatch out of my [00:37:30,160] hand. [00:37:31,160] The suit is bleeding into the cabin all the time, so you never truly get zero. [00:37:33,920] That's right, you never truly get zero on a thing, but the dump valve was still open, [00:37:40,680] and if I hadn't been hanging on to the hatch, it would have blown it all away. [00:37:44,880] All right, to give you an idea, that's not unexpected, because it's exactly what we had [00:37:50,200] on the lunar surface. [00:37:51,920] We completely dumped the lamp, and I'd still have to break that hatch loose and hold it [00:37:59,000] open about six or eight inches until things just bent it, and then I could leave go of [00:38:03,120] the hatch and open it all the way. [00:38:05,040] If I didn't, it would slam back closed, so it was basically the same thing. [00:38:12,160] It got open, and it really let things get down to zero. [00:38:15,840] Okay, well, when I opened the hatch, then all of the, excuse me, all the little ice crystals [00:38:24,920] and everything started flowing out, a pen floating by, something else went floating by. [00:38:31,960] I wasn't quite sure what it was, but there's all kinds of little particles and pieces [00:38:41,480] that started coming out through the hatch. [00:38:43,400] But I sure didn't see, I looked specifically for the scissors. [00:38:48,360] I didn't see the scissors go out that hatch, I had to say. [00:38:51,400] The other one by my watch, I didn't, none of them went by me. [00:38:54,680] Ron, I'd like to say that they went off the hatch, but I sure didn't see them go. [00:39:00,800] I caught the one thing, it started to go by me, and put it in your pocket, you got it. [00:39:10,520] Okay, the, once all the particles and jumpers all the way, then you just push the hatch [00:39:18,640] open. [00:39:19,640] We had disconnected the counterbalance with the beat to tool B there, so that we locked [00:39:28,360] the hatch in the open position, so I just shoved it open, and went beyond the center [00:39:32,880] position and locked in the open position with no problem. [00:39:37,040] Egress, I had a tendency, I guess, just like any other thing, it seems like you want to [00:39:42,320] fold up, and I had a tendency to fold up against the MDC and had it consciously stuck, and [00:39:50,560] get as close, my face is as close as I could to the bottom of the hatch, in order to get [00:39:55,840] past the, get the OBS past the MDC and get on out. [00:40:00,480] TV and DAC installation, work fine, I could hang on with the right hand on the hatch, [00:40:07,520] the great big D handle on the hatch, and with the TV pole on the left hand, and it worked [00:40:14,720] out real fine, just stuck it in there, and then line it up with the mark, and make sure [00:40:18,920] it was locked in or clamped in, and then climbed on up the pole to turn the TV on, or turn the [00:40:29,680] DAC on, and it was, you couldn't see the light, it couldn't see the light on, I think, but [00:40:35,760] you could feel the camera running once you turn it on, you could just touch it, you could [00:40:41,040] feel it vibrating a little bit. [00:40:46,080] The lunar center cassette retrieval, I think, they should be on the onboard, or on the [00:40:54,740] aircraft takes, as I was describing, and we'll just go on with no problem. [00:41:05,280] The pan camera cassettes were next, no problem on the pan camera cassettes, and the pan camera, [00:41:12,000] it's obviously a bigger mass, and it's quite apparent when you try to move that big mass [00:41:20,040] around, that it is heavier, it weighs more than the other things, it's easier to move, [00:41:24,680] but it just takes a little more effort to get it started, and you know that if you ever [00:41:28,400] get it started in one direction, it's going to keep on going, you have to stop it. [00:41:32,320] So I just moved everything real slow, tried to keep it down to control, the mapping camera [00:41:39,000] cassette had the same problem I had, and the C squared S squared getting the thermal cover [00:41:52,640] off, it's stuck underneath the mapping camera, it weighs around a timmer door, but there's [00:42:01,800] no real problem, you know, it's had to feed on the shoes, just give it a big jerk, and [00:42:05,200] then it finally came off. [00:42:09,240] Simba inspection, that's all covered in the onboard, I mean, air ground tapes, TV and [00:42:18,520] back removal, again it was real simple, it just had to squeeze the lever, and TV came [00:42:24,680] out, and it was easy to hang on with one hand, and maneuver the TV around, and point it [00:42:33,480] toward the moon, because I didn't have to worry about trying it into the sun, and I [00:42:38,640] tried to, again, hang on with one hand, and point the TV around toward the earth, it was [00:42:45,840] well maybe 10 or 15 degrees, probably 15 degrees from the sun, and I would try to be a little [00:42:51,520] more accurate on the thing, and when I did that, then I lost, kind of effectively really [00:42:56,920] lost control of my body position, because I was trying to, I think, maneuver the camera, [00:43:06,640] and they just, you need both hands to maintain your body control again, so rather than try [00:43:16,560] to flash the camera through the sun or something like that, and give up and try to point the [00:43:19,800] camera out there. [00:43:25,480] Con during EVA, it was loud and clear for me throughout the EVA, there was a lot of background [00:43:32,880] noise, the hissing of the air flow, and I'm sure that was probably going on with the box [00:43:37,960] circuit. [00:43:38,960] But, don't you think anyone, it didn't appear to me that anyone had any trouble on the ground [00:43:44,760] region? [00:43:45,760] I think one of the big advantages around me on pity that one thing we did, because it was [00:43:49,360] bothering me in the first week, I turned the air mopox sensitivity down about two notches, [00:43:53,320] and apparently that really improved the conformers, the impression I had, I had that impression [00:43:58,040] from the ground, I don't know if it did, for me, the difference is not, but I got the impression [00:44:01,280] that it did help. [00:44:03,040] Com into the cabin was excellent, I never had any trouble understanding, I had to hissing [00:44:06,320] in the background, but we did. [00:44:07,880] Yeah, I thought it sounded much better than I remembered other flights, sounding. [00:44:13,320] On the air ground. [00:44:14,600] Well, our CMP made more noise than that, I guess he's the wrong word there, it was clear. [00:44:21,320] Clear. [00:44:22,320] Ingress seemed to me like it was easier than the egress. [00:44:31,120] Yeah, for some reason, hash closing was harder than I anticipated, and I guess maybe this [00:44:40,960] is the same reason is that I must have been exhausting into the cabin all the time, and [00:44:46,240] just that light, the hash would come closed within about an inch of closing on the outer [00:44:50,760] edge, and then it took an effort to pull the hash closed so that you could activate the [00:44:57,920] latching handle so that you could get the lashes over center. [00:45:04,040] Of course, once you got the first stroke of the latching handle, I got the hat to lashes [00:45:10,640] over center, then it's really just a couple more cranks on the hatch closing. [00:45:19,280] Can you repress, I don't know if any of my content here is LNP, all I did was work in [00:45:29,240] the hatch area, and I want to emphasize what everybody has always said is that you do your [00:45:36,760] best work when you take things slow and easy, and just let yourself move yourself in small [00:45:42,120] increments to where you want to go, and you can turn and dip and save yourself out, and [00:45:47,120] I think it's also useful for any cabin, hatch, or port operations to have somebody else available [00:45:55,800] to push you out on your tether as far as you want to go, and I'll pull you in just to [00:46:00,200] ease the operation being with doing this occasionally for me, but with the kind, with the scruts [00:46:08,720] and everything available there, there was never any feeling that I couldn't have a way [00:46:12,120] to control my body position, sometimes it took a few seconds to get it where I wanted [00:46:16,880] to go, the one thing, invariably every time I went back inside, I had this 90 degree disorientation [00:46:26,120] feeling for a few seconds, until I got the perspective of the cabin again, and said okay [00:46:32,400] that's right, and I get back in, and then I go back outside and come back in again, and [00:46:36,480] once again it seemed as if the cabin had rotated 90 degrees to my perspective, and it's just [00:46:43,440] something that's no problem, it's just a change of perspective for some reason, I experienced [00:46:51,760] several times, I guess the biggest problem working in that angle from a sun angle, our [00:47:02,160] attitude was, I had the sun in your eyes most of the time, and it sort of made it hard to [00:47:11,000] look in detail, and see what you were doing, you were clear and it was there, and I could [00:47:15,440] see every major offer to do it, but if I had to specifically see details of this. [00:47:21,520] Oh, I don't know, one point I wanted to make, also it wasn't, I had no awareness whatsoever [00:47:26,960] that I had an umbilical on my back, it was, I never got the feeling that the umbilical [00:47:32,920] was tugging on me, restricting my movements, or anything, I didn't even know it was there, [00:47:38,400] but did you observe at any time did the umbilical ever get tangled around, I feel the umbilical [00:47:44,240] was easy to tend, and I frankly don't remember a single time and I had to clear it, there [00:47:52,000] may have been one, somebody had a vague impression that one time I asked you to hold up, or maybe [00:47:58,520] I didn't say anything, I just moved it away from a handhold or something, but the umbilical [00:48:04,160] was very, it didn't tend to snake around, you seem to have everything you needed on it. [00:48:10,120] I worked out a little job on it all, I didn't even know it was there, I guess, that's the [00:48:13,000] point I was making, is it really, that being tied to the umbilical does not restrict your [00:48:17,400] movement, or give you a feeling that is restricting your movement at all. [00:48:27,880] Suit doffing and storage, I think we've already discussed that, this is continuing [00:48:35,080] on the EVA part of it, but I don't know, this is just a different section here, suit doffing [00:48:41,280] and storage, we've already mentioned the suit doffing and storage, the light flash phenomena, [00:48:51,240] we thrilled for blindfolded for an hour and never saw a light flash. [00:48:56,480] That was the final second round, I don't worry about transverse, eating, resting exercise [00:49:04,600] and don't worry. [00:49:05,600] Let me add to the light flash, the cell, the next, that evening, I guess it was, I did [00:49:11,480] see them again, falling asleep, so I did too, so there was just that period, apparently [00:49:19,360] during the actual experiment that, if there's some reason they weren't this way. [00:49:27,760] I think we've discussed the eating, resting more, exercise covered already, cabin atmosphere, [00:49:35,800] the one thing that I don't think we've ever mentioned yet, and I think should be noted [00:49:42,640] is that we never really utilized a waste storage vent to get rid of any orders out of that [00:49:54,040] waste storage compartment, and if you, if you kind of drifted over in that area, it was [00:50:00,240] always a crime that you were in that area, you got real close to what I thought it was. [00:50:06,680] I think, I guess maybe I did when you opened the door, that's when you really noticed it. [00:50:10,400] The cabin, generally, turned over the atmosphere in pretty good style. [00:50:19,440] It got saturated sometimes with gas and it took a few minutes, but once the exhaust, [00:50:27,760] that gas was, was plugged up, the cabin did a good job of recirculating, cleaning up the [00:50:36,280] air, and I think it did a real good flight plan updates were super, the flight plan was [00:50:42,080] excellent anywhere hell to a minimum, and we really didn't change any part of the entire [00:50:46,200] flight except a few dates and times and what have you here in attitudes, but other than [00:50:53,280] that it was really at a minimum. [00:50:56,760] Let's say the entry preparation is really begin after EVA and continue off through the [00:51:04,880] next day, and we had very little final storage to do on entry morning, just those things [00:51:11,680] that we had to leave unstoed until we got out of our sleep restraints, so we basically [00:51:17,240] just had to tie the big bags down, I wanted to in 7 and 8, and final entry preparations [00:51:23,880] went by the checklist, and if anything, we stayed about five minutes ahead throughout [00:51:31,840] the entire checklist, including separation and activation of the command module RCS, and [00:51:40,920] picked that five minutes up, of course, right at 05G, which came on time, the communications [00:51:46,960] I thought were very good through that period of time, we were through Orion the last couple [00:51:52,880] minutes prior to RRT, and I understand how the ground heard everything we said right [00:51:58,640] through Blackout, into Blackout, and then I understood we came out Blackout, they still [00:52:03,960] had Orion, and they could read us, and we could have read them, but they never transmitted [00:52:10,440] anything. [00:52:11,440] Well, that was it, okay, I don't know how to take care of myself, you know, I can't think [00:52:29,240] of anything at all, on the quarter section, so we got Horizon and Moonset, without any [00:52:34,320] problem of looking, but we had a lot on the over, within seconds of the actual time. [00:52:39,760] And they were all within seconds, and you know, in this CMS, I'd always look for the [00:52:45,200] 2G when the quarter light would go out, though, I didn't even notice it in the flight. [00:52:51,440] So I must have been, I was either watching something else, I must have been checking [00:52:55,360] the EMS or the...
NASA-UAP-D029, Apollo 17 Crew Medical Debriefing (Continued), 1972
Segment 2 of 2 of the Apollo 17 post-mission medical debriefing at NASA's Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston, covering crew discussion of the cosmic-ray 'light flash phenomena.'
[00:00:00,000] Okay, this is take number 14, tenuation of section 23.0 with Jack Schmidt. [00:00:16,200] Okay, flight data file, CSM. [00:00:20,920] Generally I have nothing but praise for the flight data file, both vehicles. [00:00:27,120] There was very, very few things that one could have asked for to improve that data file for [00:00:33,000] Apollo 17 at any rate. [00:00:36,880] One comment on the flight plan supplement. [00:00:41,280] We had split pages for a number of the logging, medical and food logging, and that probably [00:00:50,620] was a mistake. [00:00:52,560] I think the idea was fairly good initially, but the pages, we tended to only use that [00:00:59,440] in the book as a whole and it was a good place to keep them and also the pages, if you had [00:01:05,160] wanted them split, were too thin to maintain the split and they tended to fall out of the [00:01:10,320] book. [00:01:11,320] I recommend either not splitting or having heavier paper if you want them split. [00:01:31,740] We had an extra cue card built for panel 229. [00:01:38,560] I think it was an excellent card that summarized the circuit breaker functions both on 229 [00:01:45,240] and on Panel 8 because we had no systems and anomalies of any significance that would [00:01:52,560] relate to that card, it was not used, but I would strongly recommend its availability [00:01:57,280] if only for training during the and during SIMS. [00:02:02,200] That's a good quick review of what you lose or retain for those two panels. [00:02:20,960] I, in the flight plan, I added some penic cues along the margins for certain observational [00:02:33,920] targets that I particularly wanted to look at. [00:02:38,560] These were independent of any experiment, designated experiment, and I entered them as [00:02:47,320] a function of time and that seemed to work very well for me. [00:02:53,920] I think it had that kind of thing as an individual preference item and if you have experimented [00:03:00,720] ought to be flight planned, if you're just planning to use your spare time for specific [00:03:06,360] observational targets or types of observations, then I think the penic is maybe the easiest [00:03:14,320] way to go since it shouldn't concern any large number of people. [00:03:23,460] We, Gordy Fullerton, fixed up the circular orbital cue card for me with a similar designation [00:03:34,800] of craters as a function of time, I did not use that, not because it wasn't a good idea, [00:03:45,840] but because a familiarity with the moon which came very quickly after a couple orbits and [00:03:53,360] you just, you could recognize your position on the moon fairly easily as a function of [00:03:59,440] each rev, either the time in the rev, approximate time since sunset, or just because you could [00:04:06,700] look out the window and tell where you were. [00:04:12,560] In the limb, we, the same comment supply, I think all the flight data file items were [00:04:21,880] excellent. [00:04:23,560] The, I did not use the data card book to the extent that I know it was used on 15 and maybe [00:04:33,320] on 16. [00:04:36,360] We logged most of our specific items such as alignment data and comparable kinds of things [00:04:53,360] in the checklist at the point where they were collected rather than in the data book and [00:04:58,000] had no, this did not seem to raise any difficulty at any time. [00:05:04,040] The cuff checklist we've talked about, I think, in the surface items, I, I thought the cuff [00:05:14,240] checklist was excellent, I think we did the things, we had the right kind of photo maps [00:05:19,360] in there that were useful for reference, where we were around a given station. [00:05:32,360] I don't think we used them as much as I had anticipated using them, mainly because navigation [00:05:38,560] was no problem and the points that we had selected pre-flight were excellent points [00:05:42,800] for investigation and there was no need to try to decide on alternative points to, to [00:05:50,080] try to study in the vicinity of a given station. [00:05:57,360] The list of items to be accomplished at each station are to, really, they were mine joggers [00:06:08,480] to read at each station, were not, again, not as used as much as I thought they would [00:06:13,680] be initially, but I think that was mainly because we both, at least I had become so familiar [00:06:19,800] with the items that each station was in itself easy to recall as a result of having created [00:06:27,240] the checklist, so checklist was, it turned out to be more of a, of a learning item rather [00:06:33,840] than a reference item for use on the surface, I wouldn't have done it any differently however. [00:06:48,360] I particularly want to compliment the Chuck Lewis on the timeline book that, but I really [00:06:59,800] can't sing on it, but the timeline book was, was very, very well done and very, had no [00:07:05,400] problems with the timeline book at all, but that of course applies to the, to every, every [00:07:11,720] checklist that we had, there were just no procedural errors that I could, that I recall [00:07:17,960] in any of the books that we used, fortunately we didn't have to use an malfunction book or [00:07:26,600] the only once did I pull out the systems data book to check, to check on a systems problem [00:07:35,720] and I, right now, can't remember what that was, I don't remember where it was, or I didn't [00:07:45,840] use it once. Charts and maps, I thought in the CSM that I would use the orbit, what do [00:07:59,200] I see, orbit monitor charts, I guess that's what they're called, and I had an extra one [00:08:03,440] put on, so I wouldn't interfere with the planned activities of, of the CMP, I did not use that [00:08:13,560] very much. I eventually did some sketching on it post TEI, I think there are about five [00:08:22,640] specific points that I labeled as areas, A, B, C, D, maybe E, and these are referenced [00:08:30,840] on my crew notebook, in my crew notebook for specific observations, but in general I did [00:08:38,680] not put that to as much use as I expected. One item is that, that chart should have been [00:08:43,520] identical to the CMP's chart, and there were a few pen and ink changes left off of it that [00:08:48,360] caused some confusion at one point. Pen and ink exposure settings for certain photo targets. [00:09:01,480] The CSM, the landmark maps that the LNP had added in the rear of that book, again were [00:09:13,720] not used. I really thought I would use those, but in the, you became reluctant as you were [00:09:24,760] observing a specific point or area target, such as Gagarin or something like that, to [00:09:31,840] take time out, to sketch on the photo. I tended for the two or three minutes that observation [00:09:37,760] was possible of a given area. I tended to look, and then at the first opportunity to [00:09:44,800] take notes in the notebook, rather than trying to sketch on the photograph. And I suspect [00:09:52,320] that this was because I tended to look for generalizations about the target that I was [00:09:58,880] trying to observe, rather than checking out specific individual features. And there really [00:10:06,200] did not seem to be any need to make notes about specific points on the pictures, and [00:10:12,960] as a result I did not use them. Again, though, I think having selected them and [00:10:19,680] study them pre-flight made it worth having them around. The necessity for flying them [00:10:26,240] was probably less than the necessity for having reviewed them and study them. I think I still, [00:10:35,080] if I had to do it again, I still would want to have that kind of data available in the [00:10:39,800] spacecraft, even though on this particular mission it was not used. I do think though [00:10:45,760] that the CMP used his visual target maps considerably, and I did on a couple occasions [00:10:52,560] to use some of the ones that he had again. But for the most part that was post-TEI, and [00:11:01,520] I made some notes and sketches on some of those maps. And I think that was just a function [00:11:09,400] that there was a lot of time to look at the moon and make a sketch and then look back [00:11:13,680] and fix it up post-TEI, where in orbit the time just did not exist. As Dick Gordon said [00:11:24,520] a couple of years ago, and once you start flying, the clock is relentless. Okay, General [00:11:36,640] Flight Planning. I was not very closely involved in the flight planning. Ron sort of carried [00:11:45,880] the burden of that for both Jean and myself. The flight plan was excellent. We had no problems [00:11:56,720] with it at all, that I'm aware of. Tommy Holloway and his people were to be complimented on that. [00:12:12,800] A number of different requirements and experiments and general operational items that were required [00:12:23,280] to be integrated one with the other was very, very high, and it was done in an extremely [00:12:31,280] competent and usable way. And I can't think of anything that I would change in the way [00:12:43,760] the flight plan was written. Okay, 23.5 pre-flight support. Pre-flight support was excellent in [00:13:08,080] the flight data file area. And one specific item that I had was once the flight plan was [00:13:16,600] well established, just about at the final stage. I had two or three, I don't remember, [00:13:27,640] two or three briefing sessions were in the portions of the moon orbit flight plan that [00:13:33,800] I was going to be during which I was going to be in the spacecraft and the CSM. We went [00:13:43,400] over in detail the attitudes and maneuvers and the window of availability so that I was [00:13:51,840] able to plan in a very short amount of time with the minimum effort on my part, my own [00:13:58,560] personal observations of the lunar surface and which went very well as far as planning [00:14:06,240] was concerned. Appreciated that that was extra above and beyond the call of duty on the part [00:14:14,320] of the flight planers and I appreciated their taking time out to do that for me. I think [00:14:27,640] it was useful to have the, I think it was a day-long session where the flight controllers [00:14:38,920] and the crew and the flight planners sat around in one room and went over those portions [00:14:47,400] of the flight plan which were not normally simulated. It turned out that the flight plan [00:14:54,080] had been so well done that I doubt if there were any specific items that came up that [00:15:00,720] we needed to do change or there seemed to be a lack of coordination on. This was in [00:15:05,920] contrast to previous flights where I think we were still learning, all of us were learning [00:15:13,040] on how to put together flight plans in a great requirement. The Apollo 17 flight plan apparently [00:15:21,660] reached the peak of perfection. I was a little bit disappointed in that briefing in that [00:15:28,840] some of the people who would be eventually intimately involved in the mission were not [00:15:33,240] at the flight plan review and I think this was because of conflicts with other programs [00:15:44,320] which were the center I was carrying out at the time. Okay, 24.0 visual sightings. Well, [00:16:09,960] we've covered the countdown and launch, I think, pretty well in the previous sections. [00:16:24,960] Also part flight, Earth orbit, I think the transcript would cover the visual sightings [00:16:29,520] that I made with respect to weather and a few geographic observations and that same [00:16:39,400] would go for the fairly extensive weather observations that I tried to make, or translunar. We had [00:16:52,360] only a small crescent of an Earth and it was not feasible to do an extensive weather observations. [00:17:00,280] I don't know whether I recorded yet that although we had light flashes just about continuously [00:17:08,640] during the whole flight when it was when you were dark adapted and I may have even had [00:17:15,800] one which I thought was a flash on the lunar surface during the first rev, that one period [00:17:26,440] of time when we had the blindfolds on for the opnet experiment there just were no visible [00:17:31,560] flashes although the next that evening that night before I went to sleep I noticed I was [00:17:37,720] seeing the light flashes again so it just seemed to be that one interval either side [00:17:42,600] of that, that interval and either side of it where the light flash phenomena was not visible [00:17:47,960] to myself or to the other two crewmen. [00:17:54,800] Lunar orbit, I think the transcript and my crew notebook would cover all of the visual [00:18:04,440] sightings that I can remember at this stage without going over it by orbit and feature [00:18:11,320] by feature with the photography and I think that has to come later. [00:18:16,560] Entry we covered in the previous briefings and I think the same goes for landing and [00:18:23,240] recovery. 25.0, pre-mission planning for the LNP, it's hard to think of once again of [00:18:42,000] anything that we didn't do right, I'm sure that might have been different had we had [00:18:47,320] problems on the flight but right the way the flight went, the total plan, the integration [00:18:53,200] of the mission requirements into that plan, although there were periods of some difficulty [00:19:03,320] pre-flight particularly in the area of medical requirements and in some last minute possible [00:19:15,840] scientific requirements particularly on the samples, everything seemed to get resolved [00:19:21,120] satisfactorily as near as I could tell and I don't, I can't think of anything that was [00:19:29,240] not handled very well and particularly between the people who were leveling the requirements [00:19:36,320] and the flight planners in particular and occasionally when the crew had to be involved [00:19:42,760] that was handled almost entirely by the support crew, Bob Parker in the science area and Gordy [00:19:51,400] Fullerton and Bob Obermeyer in the operational areas. There were no significant spacecraft [00:19:59,360] changes in the course of our training period. Ron I guess the biggest single area that took [00:20:08,920] time was the one that Ron had to deal with and that was Luna Sounder. Most of our ALSEP [00:20:15,600] changes were all taken care of prior to our training and we had a few minor suggestions [00:20:23,440] that were taken care of early in the training cycle and we essentially had an up-to-date [00:20:34,280] to ALSEP to train with and all other lunar surface gear was up to date for most of the [00:20:41,240] 12-month training period or the final 12 months of the training period. Mission rules and [00:20:52,320] techniques were fairly well defined very early by Phil Schaeffer and his crowd in the techniques [00:21:01,040] area and the mission rules and Jerry Griffin and people working on that. No major changes [00:21:07,320] and only the only changes were all I felt in the right direction and that they enhanced [00:21:11,960] the probability of making a landing and a successful mission. They generally were in [00:21:20,240] the area of opening up possibilities for workarounds so that a mission could be completed. [00:21:29,600] We really never had to exercise any significant, any of the mission rules in that normal way. [00:21:38,280] I think the one time that mission rule tended to, at least finish this check on everyone, [00:21:44,880] a mission rule tended to be fairly clearly a controlling factor was in the limitation [00:21:51,120] on the work at Station 4 or Shorty Crater where we were up against the walk-back constraints [00:22:01,120] and terminated that work after only 35 minutes where another 30 minutes there I think would [00:22:09,800] have been extremely valuable although I hope that we got enough information that the phenomenon [00:22:20,280] exposed at that crater can be understood. The 26.0 mission control, typically outstanding [00:22:35,400] support for mission control. I think this includes the number of extracurricular hours [00:22:46,480] that the limb people and the e-cons for the CSM in particular put in with me on Saturdays [00:22:59,520] and other times just generally talking over systems and techniques, mission rules and [00:23:07,960] that was a major factor in helping me understand and keep up to speed on those items. I think [00:23:16,200] the help that they gave me in designing and in fact as they essentially did it, they did [00:23:24,360] the design of the emergency cue cards that we did for Apollo 17 for the limb was a major [00:23:33,240] contribution although fortunately not, we did not use them, they still made it possible [00:23:40,640] to understand very quickly systems problems and to solve those problems in the simulations [00:23:48,440] and had we required them, I think it would have gone very well. I particularly want to [00:23:56,920] point out the help that Dick Thorson gave in organizing most of the limb sessions and [00:24:09,720] even some of the joint CSM limb sessions that we had. And he also, Thorson also was a major [00:24:26,120] organizer of the creation of and the updating of Bill's emergency cue cards. Human factor [00:24:44,800] is 27.0. Let's go back, let's say one other comment on 26.0. Post flight, it's my understanding [00:24:59,360] that some of the things I had hoped could be done during the flight were not possible [00:25:10,160] because of real time discussions in the mission control. Specifically one of those things [00:25:18,800] was to have some summary of the thinking of the science background given to me while [00:25:36,280] in flight and that would be the thinking based on the data that we had transmitted to them [00:25:42,680] verbally and to sense visually through the television camera. I had hoped that I would [00:25:48,600] have the benefit of their thinking but apparently this was not possible to do. I would like [00:25:57,520] to think that in the future we can look at ways of using the team approach to science [00:26:06,320] investigations in space rather than depending solely on the observational capability and [00:26:14,520] the interpretive capability of the men who are performing the job. There's no reason [00:26:22,640] that I can see to not use all the brain power that's available for any given task and part [00:26:28,640] of that brain power is on the ground. Okay 27.0. Human factor is preflight. The broad [00:26:49,480] of the discussions and organization from the crew point of view of the preflight health [00:26:55,200] stabilization control program was born by the commander and the LNP just sort of went [00:27:06,560] along with whatever was decided. I personally did not find any great difficulty in working [00:27:19,760] out and adhering to the requirements of that program. I think medical care although very [00:27:31,120] limited requirement was good. A couple of sinus infections I had reacted just like they [00:27:39,760] always had and we were able over a period of two or ten days or two weeks to get those [00:27:45,160] cleared up. Time for exercise probably was less than it should have been although I was [00:27:56,960] able to get a good workout just about every other day. In addition to the workouts we [00:28:02,560] got as a normal course of our UVA training. Eventually text started scheduling putting [00:28:10,120] on the schedule time in the late afternoon for exercise and that helped as a reminder [00:28:16,960] and and buffer to see that that exercise was obtained. It is generally hard and at least [00:28:28,520] in the lunar training program to get exercise periods in during the day and quite frequently [00:28:35,760] the exercise was done in the Cape Gym at night. I think rest and sleep is an individual thing [00:28:45,120] and I made a particular effort to always get as much as I possibly could and try never [00:28:51,360] to get behind the park or on rest because my personal experiences with that is when I [00:28:59,000] tend to get cold and resulting sinus infections. Medical briefing was good. The exams seemed [00:29:10,600] to go very well in my estimation. They were as expeditious as possible under the circumstances [00:29:21,320] and I think the operational medical personnel who carried out the exams are to be complemented [00:29:31,560] in their efforts to see that the exam was as painless and as efficient as possible. This [00:29:43,880] should also include the post-flight exams on the Ticonderoga. Eating habits and amount [00:29:54,360] of food consumption were normal except during those periods of time when we were on the [00:30:01,320] end flight food prior to launch and those times that tended to be in my case a decrease [00:30:09,640] of appetite and certainly although the food was certainly a powerable my appetite did [00:30:19,560] go down and it certainly was not possible for me to eat the amount of food that was provided [00:30:26,200] for me. This also applied to space work but in the case of the in-flight eating although [00:30:39,600] I did not eat everything that was available to me in my food packages I apparently should [00:30:47,160] needed to if I hadn't wanted to avoid losing weight. My appetite was down but also apparently [00:30:55,640] for some reason I had a loss of weight and at this time of this recording my weight is [00:31:03,120] still down has not gone up to the pre-flight levels which may have been a little high by [00:31:11,720] the way. Okay 17.2 flight appetite food preference well I just discussed that a little bit and [00:31:25,560] the appetite in flight versus to each pre-flight was less again except for when we were testing [00:31:31,600] the pre-flight food when I also had a low appetite. No notable differences in the taste [00:31:40,280] of food I think the things I like pre-flight I liked in space and the things I didn't like [00:31:46,800] I also didn't like I didn't notice any differences. Changing food preferences of flight progressed [00:32:00,060] I tended to start to prefer to eat the wet packs and would eat those in preference to [00:32:10,320] any of the other solid foods. I would strongly recommend my personal point of view at any [00:32:18,880] rate that food that the wet packs be used in preference to the rehydratable. I know I [00:32:26,080] think that probably you get a different opinion from the other crewmen. The juices were good [00:32:37,280] I after the first period of one and only a period of difficulty with loose bowel moments [00:32:43,960] I did cut out the potassium indicated foods and although I can't say whether that had [00:32:51,880] any effect or not but I would not have any other loose I did not have any other bowel [00:32:56,920] moments and certainly no more loose ones. Before the end of the flight the first bowel [00:33:14,840] moment after flight on the ticonderoga was normal the second was very loose the third [00:33:22,840] was normal and the fourth and fifth very loose. [00:33:36,000] The size of food portions and the meal portions of course were pretty much constant in terms [00:33:44,800] of availability packaging but my appetite was very low the first day and gradually increased [00:33:55,960] over the next two or three days and remained essentially the same after about the third [00:34:04,600] day. I mentioned the most acceptable foods were the wet packs and the juices. The food [00:34:14,680] cake I thought was good although it was possible to eat too much or to get to the point where [00:34:20,600] you didn't want anymore. The chocolate was good I think of the dry crackers or cookies [00:34:32,000] of graham crackers were probably the most tasty. And the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches [00:34:46,760] were quite good. Deviations from the menu and the eat periods are all recorded in the [00:34:57,160] light transcripts I'm sure. Okay food preparation and consumption. [00:35:10,080] Rehydration went I think normally and the normal gas was present. Food temperature tended [00:35:22,120] to prefer the foods that were warm or hot and they were the hot water was quite adequate [00:35:30,160] for warm foods. We actually I think missed the warm foods considerably in the limb where [00:35:37,600] that hot water was not available. I did not notice an effect of water flavor water was [00:35:46,840] reasonably tasty. I never noticed a high chlorine taste of any kind. Oh the gas content did [00:35:56,120] make it a little bit uncomfortable to eat at times. Boom bowl packages worked pretty [00:36:04,000] well although those that were finally divided I tended to cut off the other end of the package [00:36:10,600] the water insertion in and use them as a squeeze package. Spoons work perfectly adequate. [00:36:18,800] I tended not to use the fruit in the cans because of just the messiness of opening those [00:36:27,480] although there I think the technique that Ron worked out of opening it in your inner near [00:36:34,720] your mouth is a good one. Puddings and this kind of thing were very good. It was only [00:36:44,240] the fruits the canned fruits that I tended to avoid just because they were inconvenient [00:36:48,840] to use. Food bars during EVAs I think were good to have although I never ate more than [00:37:04,040] half of one. It was not because it was untastied just because of a maybe a lack of interest [00:37:12,920] in eating and using that time during the EVAs. We I think after the EVA before and after [00:37:19,640] EVAs and the limb ate very well. There were some things though we did not that we avoided [00:37:27,040] and I guess in my case after one having corn chowder once and that's stimulating a major [00:37:33,840] album it although not a loose one. I tended not I did not eat corn chowder. I did not [00:37:38,600] eat the cocoa because I tended to feel like I got a little more gassed from cocoa and after [00:37:45,160] taste I did not eat the shrimp or the seafood item shrimp and the lobster bisque and these [00:37:57,880] sort of things because of the pre-flight I had noticed that they tended to have a long [00:38:03,320] aftertaste. But otherwise I think all the other foods were certainly acceptable although [00:38:11,760] many times I did not eat potato based foods because of just they were very filling. [00:38:40,720] I don't know how the German side old tablet worked. The pouch was okay. Would have been [00:38:50,280] nice to have a little dispenser that was easier to use than the pouch. I don't know whether [00:38:55,400] that would be possible to do or not. It seems to me it would a little tube dispenser of some [00:38:58,800] kind where they came out more easily. We generally just cut the corner off the pouch and squeezed [00:39:06,920] them out but it was a little inconvenient, nothing major. We used the German saddle tablets. [00:39:13,920] I did any right in all the juice bags and the spoon bowl bags and the wet packs. I did [00:39:21,720] not use them in the tea and coffee. Unders are the holders really except for the passion [00:39:31,280] of gas occasionally by the other crewmen and occasionally by myself. Unders are the owners [00:39:41,520] of the minimum. I did not find that the atmosphere was unpleasant as a general rule. I might [00:39:53,160] say that I generally had a continuous, almost continuous passage of gas most of which apparently [00:40:00,880] was not of significant odor. Occasionally that seemed to be objectionable to the other crewmen. [00:40:11,640] I think most of that was the water gas and the reason I think that is that upon starting [00:40:24,640] to eat there would be an increased desire to pass gas, an increased pressure in my stomach [00:40:30,880] apparently was transmitted almost immediately into the bowels. After eating it would pass [00:40:37,000] gas for a couple hours to three hours. Just before eating the next time the desire would [00:40:45,080] have pretty well dissipated and then it would start immediately upon eating. Before any [00:40:52,360] digestion was possible I am sure, so I suspect water gas was the main culprit in the LNP's [00:41:00,720] gas problems which were not significant. Quantity of food eaten on the lunar surface I think [00:41:10,120] was high although probably no more than half of that food that was available. It is hard [00:41:16,760] to say exactly and I think that could be worked out maybe with a detailed look at the menus [00:41:23,520] if that is desirable. To estimate the quantity would be very difficult. The quantity of food [00:41:39,160] discarded on the lunar surface would be difficult without looking at the detailed menus and [00:41:45,560] checking off those items that I am sure we ate that I ate at any rate. Skylab fecal container. [00:41:55,760] I don't know if we have that. We use a blue bag. The blue bag is not a bad way to defecate [00:42:06,360] unless the stool is loose. If it is loose it is just about impossible to use. I don't [00:42:15,880] know what you do. It is your gravity for loose stool. I don't know of any clever way to prevent [00:42:25,920] that being a problem and I am not even sure whatever the skylab people are using will prevent [00:42:30,960] that from being a problem. The best thing you can do is to work out prevention of loose [00:42:36,040] stools rather than trying to handle them after you get them. A loose stool is one of the [00:42:45,400] major hygiene and sanitary and operational problems that you can have on a flight. I [00:42:55,080] can't emphasize that more. If it happened on a regular basis, on a daily basis, you would [00:43:02,880] think eventually cut the efficiency of the crew member with the problem by a significant [00:43:08,640] percentage possibly as much as 30% depending on the magnitude of the problem. It is important [00:43:17,120] to try to understand why Apollo 17 was different than 16 and at least in the delay of a problem [00:43:29,560] of loose stools until about the 11th or 12th day and in the case of the commander, no problem [00:43:35,520] of loose stools and my personal opinion at this point based on very little information [00:43:42,360] other than observation in flight and thinking about levels of electrolyte intake is that [00:43:51,440] with the electrolyte quantity down from that imposed on Apollo 16 that we did not reach [00:44:00,400] the electrolyte saturation level until the 11th or 12th day in terms of this CMP and the [00:44:07,360] LMP and in terms of the commander because his electrolyte intake was generally less I [00:44:12,280] think and that can be documented. He did not reach the saturation level at all and when [00:44:17,920] that saturation level was reached however in the case of the CMP and LMP I suspect that [00:44:24,640] the electrolytes we were eating were dumped in a sense or concentrated in the intestines [00:44:30,400] and tended to act pretty much as a laxity and as an absence of type laxity if you will [00:44:38,200] in concentrated water in the stool. I think it's important for Skylab that first of all [00:44:49,520] we probably reduced the electrolyte intake so that saturation is never reached and secondly [00:44:57,480] that if loose stool problem develops it appears to be an electrolyte problem other than any [00:45:02,680] other biological problem that we decrease the intake of electrolytes this is what I did [00:45:19,800] on my own and whether or not it worked or not it's hard to say because the flight was [00:45:24,720] terminated before any other stools occurred okay water, orientation odor was not apparent [00:45:45,720] to me except during chlorination, identification odor is very slight apparent in the limb water [00:45:53,440] but not any significance to the LMP, physical discomfort, no physical discomfort for the [00:46:07,440] LMP other than tiredness on occasion and in the case of the EVA work sore muscles and [00:46:19,640] the bruises under the fingernails, gas water separator didn't work very effectively and [00:46:26,800] I'm sure that's been discussed elsewhere. Tensity of thirst or intermission never really [00:46:34,160] thirsty, extensively thirsty even during the EVAs although I did stop to take a drink [00:46:39,720] of water occasionally but I never drunk, I never drank all the water in the in-flight [00:46:47,520] drink bag and suit drink bag. Work rest and sleep okay, hey Tex could you try to call [00:47:08,960] the call the trailer was I, work rest sleep for the LMP, okay the difficulty in going [00:47:20,840] to sleep was variable and when seeking all was used generally no difficulty in going [00:47:28,440] to sleep when it was not used I guess there was a tendency to stay awake a little bit [00:47:32,720] longer but on other occasions the after seeking all did not seem to affect the rate of going [00:47:39,080] to sleep. There was a tendency on a couple on several nights to go to sleep and then [00:47:45,080] wake up fairly soon after going to sleep within an hour and then the second time took [00:47:50,280] a little bit of not maybe sometimes took up to an hour to go back to sleep but I feel [00:47:59,560] that the medical law reports that for the LMP were generally valid that a probably average [00:48:06,520] of five and a half to six hours of sleep per night was good and I don't think except [00:48:11,800] for maybe one night somewhere in there did I go much below that but the sleep was rarely [00:48:19,560] continued probably never continuous for more than three hours without waking up. I feel [00:48:30,720] that six hours is adequate sleep for the kind of work we were doing in space however the [00:48:36,760] programming of eight hours is necessary in order to get six hours because of the periods [00:48:43,440] of wakefulness when during sleep periods and for just the difficulty in getting the cabin [00:48:50,320] organized and everybody to bed at the prime program time. So maintaining an eight hour [00:48:56,920] sleep period is I think mandatory in order to obtain the six hours that is probably [00:49:04,180] all that is required to perform the mission without getting tired or getting behind the [00:49:12,720] power curve as I say with respect to sleep. Restraints I had the feeling that to find [00:49:21,200] by the way. I had the feeling that I wanted to have my head and limbs restrained in order [00:49:34,120] to get a good sleep although I did sleep at times without without that restraint. If I [00:49:40,400] were rebuilding the sleep restraints for my personal use I would make them smaller with [00:49:45,320] a somewhat more feeling of restraint. They're a little bit large I would say for use. When [00:50:00,480] I slept in the couch I tended to put a shoulder strap over my head and sent you down very [00:50:05,560] lightly so that I had that feeling of head restraint. Probably the biggest two things [00:50:10,700] that made sleep difficult when it was difficult was the loss of sensory perception of limb [00:50:20,520] position in zero gravity when they were not being moved that perception came back immediately [00:50:26,560] upon moving them but when they were just static and in a rest position they tended to be for [00:50:33,320] the LNP at any rate a loss of sensory perception of the position of the limb.
DOW-UAP-D091, Range Fouler Debrief, Atlantic Ocean, 2020
A U.S. Navy Range Fouler Debrief form recording an aircrew's 2020 observation of a maroon, balloon-shaped object over Atlantic Ocean training airspace, filed alongside video DOW-UAP-PR116.
DOW-UAP-PR110, Unresolved UAP Report, Eastern United States, 2020
A U.S. Northern Command report to AARO documenting 27 seconds of infrared video of an unidentified anomalous phenomenon recorded from a U.S. military platform in 2020 over the Eastern United States.
DOW-UAP-PR108, Unresolved UAP Report, Western United States, 2020
A U.S. Northern Command report to AARO consisting of 2 minutes 16 seconds of infrared sensor video of an unresolved anomalous object recorded from a U.S. military platform in 2020 over the western United States.
DOW-UAP-PR024, Unresolved UAP Report, Middle East, 2023
A U.S. Central Command report to AARO describing 18 seconds of infrared video of an unidentified anomalous phenomenon recorded from a U.S. military platform in the Middle East in 2023.
FBI-UAP-D014, Correspondence Relating to UFO Sightings, 1967, 1974
An FBI file of two correspondence items, a 1967 Chicago memo logging an 11-year-old's UFO report and a 1974 exchange in which the Bureau tells researcher Larry W. Bryant it has no record of an April 8, 1954 occupied-UFO sighting and does not collect UFO reports.
DOW-UAP-PR115, Unresolved UAP Report, Gulf of America, 2019
A Department of War release of a U.S. Air Force UAP report to AARO, built around 8 seconds of infrared video shot from a U.S. military platform over the Gulf of America in 2019.
DOW-UAP-PR112, Unresolved UAP Report, Eastern United States, 2019
A U.S. Navy submission to AARO of 20 seconds of infrared video shot from a civilian aircraft over the eastern United States in 2019, released by the Department of War on July 10 2026.
DOW-UAP-PR100, Unresolved UAP Report, Yellow Sea, 2023
A Department of War / AARO file releasing a U.S. Indo-Pacific Command report of an unresolved UAP captured as 4 minutes 57 seconds of electro-optical and infrared sensor video from a U.S. military platform over the Yellow Sea in 2023.
DOW-UAP-PR101, Unresolved UAP Report, South China Sea, 2024
A Department of War release of an AARO case: 1 minute 46 seconds of infrared video of an unresolved anomalous phenomenon over the South China Sea in 2024, reported by U.S. Indo-Pacific Command.
DOE-UAP-D004, Los Alamos Conference on Aerial Phenomena, 1949
A declassified transcript of a Secret conference held at Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory on 16 February 1949 where Manhattan Project scientists and investigators debated the origin of the 'green fireballs' seen over New Mexico since December 1948.
DOW-UAP-D090, Range Fouler Debrief, Eastern United States, 2019
A U.S. Navy Range Fouler Debrief form documenting a 2019 sighting over the Eastern United States of a small object that a 28-year military aviator and others could not identify, filed alongside the video DOW-UAP-PR112.
DOW-UAP-PR111, Unresolved UAP Report, Eastern United States, 2020
A Department of War release of a U.S. Northern Command report to AARO documenting one minute of infrared sensor video of an unresolved anomalous phenomenon recorded over the eastern United States in 2020.
DOW-UAP-PR106, Unresolved UAP Report, Eastern United States, 2020
A Department of War UAP report packaging 11 seconds of infrared video that U.S. Northern Command submitted to AARO on a 2020 encounter over the eastern United States.
DOW-UAP-D092, Department of the Air Force Committee to Review Project Bluebook, 1966-1967
Internal U.S. Air Force records documenting the 1966 O'Brien Committee (the Scientific Advisory Board Ad Hoc Committee to Review Project Blue Book) and the Air Force's steps to act on its recommendation to contract an outside scientific team to investigate selected UFO sightings.
DOW-UAP-D095, Joint U.S.-Canadian Aviation Projects and UFO Sighting Reports, 1954-1955
A 1954-1955 U.S. Air Force intelligence file (released by the Department of War) on the Avro Canada Project Y2, a joint U.S.-Canadian circular VTOL aircraft, and its overlap with flying-saucer reports, plus related UFO, radar, and reporting-program correspondence.
DOW-UAP-D097, Project Sign Progress Report, 1948
The initial Air Materiel Command report on Project Sign (the U.S. Air Force's 1948 UFO study), tabulating 100 sightings from 1947-1948 plus an appended magazine article, 'The Biology of the Flying Saucer.'
DOW-UAP-D089, Range Fouler Debrief, Eastern United States, 2020
A U.S. Navy Range Fouler Debrief form documenting a military operator's sighting of a small, metallic-looking object with a reflective underside in Eastern U.S. airspace around 2020, released by the Department of War on July 10, 2026.
DOW-UAP-PR107, Unresolved UAP Report, Eastern United States, 2020
A U.S. Northern Command report to AARO documenting an unresolved UAP: 28 seconds of infrared video shot from a U.S. military platform over the eastern United States in 2020.
DOW-UAP-PR103, Unresolved UAP Report, East China Sea, 2024
An AARO case file on an unresolved UAP: 1 minute 16 seconds of infrared sensor video of an unidentified area of contrast, submitted by U.S. Indo-Pacific Command from a 2024 encounter over the East China Sea.
DOW-UAP-PR114, Unresolved UAP Report, Atlantic Ocean, 2016
A U.S. Northern Command report to AARO documenting 39 seconds of infrared video of an unidentified anomalous phenomenon captured by a U.S. military platform over the Atlantic Ocean in 2016.
CIA-UAP-D020, Memorandum on Unconventional Aircraft Sightings, 1955
A 1 November 1955 CIA cover sheet and memorandum summarizing the debriefing of four Americans, including U.S. Senator Richard Russell, who reported an unconventional aircraft sighting from a train in the Soviet Union in 1955.
DOW-UAP-D096, Correspondence Relating to Project Blue Book, 1955
A 1955 Project Blue Book correspondence file from the U.S. Air Force's Air Technical Intelligence Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, holding letters and memoranda between the Air Force, members of Congress, and private citizens about UFO sightings and Blue Book findings.
DOE-UAP-D005, Pantex Unidentified Object Incident Report, 2015
A Department of Energy incident report documenting a September 1, 2015 unidentified object that entered the airspace over the Pantex Plant near Amarillo, Texas, the primary U.S. nuclear-weapons assembly and disassembly site.
DOW-UAP-PR104, Unresolved UAP Report, Yellow Sea, 2025
A Department of War / AARO case file (DOW-UAP-PR104) documenting an unresolved UAP report: 18 seconds of infrared video of a six-pointed-star-shaped contrast recorded over the Yellow Sea in 2025.
DOW-UAP-D093, Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United States, 1948
A U.S. Air Force Air Intelligence Division study, Study No. 203 dated 10 December 1948, analyzing roughly 210 reported flying-object incidents over the United States and weighing whether they are domestic devices, natural phenomena, or Soviet-origin aircraft.
NASA-UAP-D032, STS-80 Unidentified Object Image 3, 1996
A NASA photograph, the third of three, taken during Space Shuttle Columbia's STS-80 mission in 1996, showing an unidentified object in low-Earth orbit superimposed against the Earth.
NASA-UAP-D031, STS-80 Unidentified Object Image 2, 1996
A NASA photograph from Space Shuttle Columbia's STS-80 mission showing the second of three images of an unidentified object in low-Earth orbit, captured between November 19 and December 7, 1996.
DOW-UAP-PR105, Unresolved UAP Report, East China Sea, 2025
A U.S. Indo-Pacific Command report to AARO documenting an unresolved UAP: 5 minutes of infrared video captured from a U.S. military platform over the East China Sea in 2025.
DOW-UAP-PR113, Unresolved UAP Report, Western United States, 1996
A Department of War release of a 2 minute 57 second infrared video, likely captured by a U.S. military platform in 1996 over the western United States, that the Navy's UAP Task Force transferred to AARO in 2022.
DOW-UAP-PR030, Unresolved UAP Report, Middle East, 2023
A U.S. Central Command report to AARO documenting a 2023 Middle East UAP incident captured as 10 seconds of infrared video from a U.S. military platform.
DOW-UAP-D094, Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United States, 1949
A December 1948 USAF Air Intelligence Division study, "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the U.S." (Study No. 203), assessing roughly 210 reported flying-object sightings and weighing whether they are domestic devices or Soviet unconventional aircraft.
CIA-UAP-D021, Analysis of Unconventional Aircraft Sightings, 1955
A 1955 CIA Top Secret memorandum analyzing reports of 'flying saucers' or unconventional aircraft, tied to observer debriefings in CIA-UAP-D020, that concludes the sighting did not evidence an unconventional aircraft.
NASA-UAP-D030, STS-80 Unidentified Object Image 1, 1996
A NASA photograph from Space Shuttle Columbia's STS-80 mission showing an unidentified object in low-Earth orbit near the center of the frame.
DOW-UAP-PR116, Unresolved UAP Report, Atlantic Ocean, 2020
A U.S. Northern Command report to AARO on an unresolved 2020 UAP over the Atlantic Ocean, built around 32 seconds of infrared video from a U.S. military platform.
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